The Fearless Road
Entrepreneurial insights, stories, and advice on embracing fear, breaking boundaries, and achieving goals on the road to success.
Join Michael on a captivating odyssey down 'The Fearless Road' and brace yourself for a life-altering transformation. This groundbreaking podcast is not merely a conduit to success; it is a profound exploration of courage, authenticity, and the pursuit of passions. With each episode, Michael and his dedicated team embark on a quest to uncover the secrets to triumph and support the unwavering determination required to chase dreams fearlessly.
The Fearless Road is committed to exploring the road to success and empowering our audience to navigate this journey with confidence, resilience, and fearlessness. Pursuing your passions and being yourself requires tremendous inner strength and vulnerability. It’s important to consistently recognize and appreciate the confidence it takes to follow your heart and your dreams. Stay Fearless!
The Fearless Road
04. My Fearless Road: A Transformational Journey from Bullying to Bravery with Michael Devous Jr.
Have you ever felt the sting of bullying? Well, let me tell you, I have. In honor of National Anti-Bully Awareness Month, Michael Devous Jr. takes center stage in a candid conversation with his sister and guest host, Phaedra. But this time, the roles are reversed as Phaedra turns the spotlight on Michael to delve into his personal journey of being bullied, from his early childhood to recent encounters in the workplace.
Bullying isn't just a personal story; it's a societal issue with profound implications. In this heartfelt episode, we journey with Michael as he shares his experiences, starting from his very first bully. Through raw and honest conversations, we explore how different people in his life, from teachers to peers, manifested bullying and how his parents' distinct philosophies shaped his approach to handling these difficult situations.
But here's the twist—this episode isn't just about victimhood. It's about resilience and strength. Michael opens up about how adversity can be a powerful source of inner fortitude and how modern parenting, with its increased involvement and commitment to continuous education, can rewrite the narrative around bullying.
As the discussion unfolds, societal norms that stifle self-expression are challenged, and the importance of fostering open dialogues with children is illuminated. And guess what? There's a silver lining to that dark cloud of bullying. This episode also reflects on how these painful experiences can teach valuable lessons. Learn how bullying can foster resilience and how our own journeys can empower us to support our children through their struggles.
So, are you ready to join Michael on this transformative journey down The Fearless Road? Tune in as we uncover the deeper layers of bullying, explore its societal impact, and discover how self-love and fearlessness can light the path toward becoming the greatest versions of ourselves.
Join us on this emotional and inspiring episode, and let's embark together on The Fearless Road to a brighter, bully-free future.
Don't miss it—listen now!
Hey everybody, welcome to episode four of the Fearless Road podcast. I'm your host, Michael DeVue. I am out on a walk in the forest so please pardon the quality of the sound. And this week episode four is our bullying episode. It's National Anti-Bullying Awareness Month and in honor of that, I share my own personal journey with bullying and my own personal stories and experiences, and my sister, Fedra, is my interviewer. She comes and joins me in studio to ask me some of these really hard-hitting questions and to get a little deeper insight into my own personal experience with bullying. Trigger warning there's some causing, there's some discussion of violence, sexual abuse, other things like that. So be forewarned. This may not be appropriate for children or teens, but maybe having any discussion with them is key, Maybe making sure that they are included in the discussion and that you continue to discuss in a home to help them understand what bullying is, how they can speak up and be part of the action to change it. Yeah, anti-national, anti-bullying awareness month. Episode four of the Fearless Road. Thank you for coming on this journey with me. Thank you for sharing it with me. Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to discuss my truth. I hope you enjoy it. It gets a bit controversial. I'm sure I'll piss off a few people, but it's my opinion, it's my perspective and it's my experience and hopefully that will resonate with a few people. So enjoy, Stay fearless, be well, be good to each other and I will see you on Fearless Road. Bye, Okay, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Fearless Road podcast Episode, I believe, four.
Speaker 1:This is what we're going to try to do. If I cut this out, then you'll know what we won't know. So I've been having struggles with my platforms, with my software, with my recording, with my audio a number of things getting consistency. I hope and pray that this episode is quality and is good for you, and I will do my best, of course, to make sure that that's the case. But I do want to preface that this has been an ongoing struggle for me to get consistent quality of my recordings so that you, the listeners, and you, the viewers, are receiving consistent quality across the board. That being said, none of it has been consistent, None of it has been the same quality, and I am not an editor. So I've done my best and hopefully you've enjoyed what you've been listening to and what you've been watching, and I'll get better. It will get better and we'll move on from there.
Speaker 1:So today's episode, this episode, we are celebrating National Antibody Awareness Month for the month of October, which is such an important message, I think, especially when you think about the fact that 25%, more than a quarter of all of us, students and otherwise, experience bullying, especially in school. National Anti-Bullying Awareness Month, which is important for so many different reasons. Obviously, it is important to me because it is, it was my experience. In fact, if I look back at my life and I look back at what, how my life was shaped and formed, it was the original foundation of my life. It was the, it was the, not primitive, it was the primal, the yeah, main original source of influence, I would say, in how my life was shaped, how my constitution, my character, my upbringing, my youth was shaped, informed and impacted, was bullied and I've experienced it throughout my life, In fact, as recent as 2021, you know, by a coworker and it's nonstop and it's pervasive and it exists everywhere in society and it exists in our workplaces, it exists in our school systems, it exists in our neighborhoods, it exists everywhere and it's bad, it's just bad and it should stop.
Speaker 1:We should not treat each other this way. We should not bully people and people should not bully us. And there's somehow, there's this idea of a power dynamic that I feel better when I harm you, that I feel better by putting you down, pushing you down, and especially when it's done in public, in front of others, my sense of power, my sense of worth. Somehow we are rewarding bullies because they wouldn't do it if they weren't getting something out of it. So here we are.
Speaker 1:This will be out at the 30th of October, the very last, almost the last day of the month of October. I apologize, but it is a way to close out the month. It is a way to close out National Anti-Bully Awareness Month. It is a way to close out a month worth of social media posts and blogging and everything that tries to draw more attention and time and voices to this message. And for this particular episode, which is a very special episode for me, it's also a very special episode for my sister, Phaedra, who is on the call today and is my co-host Well, is my host today. She's going to be interviewing me and she's going to be asking me questions and I'm in the hot seat this time.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, you guys are going to get a little more insight into me hopefully and maybe you'll like it and we'll see.
Speaker 1:So welcome to the episode, the bullying episode.
Speaker 2:We will see. You know, Welcome to the episode and before we go any further, I'm sure people have this instinct but to clarify, there will be mention of verbal, physical, psychological and potentially sexual abuse in this episode. So trigger warning, be aware, don't listen around little ears. And if those are things you have a problem with, then maybe this is not the episode for you. But with that being said, let's just dive right in with you, michael, and let's talk about when did bullying begin for you and Adon, who was your first bully?
Speaker 1:I, if you recall. It's funny when I recall my childhood and I mean this in terms of preteen kind of childhood I look back fondly on my preschool, kindergarten, preschool days where I felt I felt, to a certain degree, like I had good friends and I had good buddies.
Speaker 1:I will say that I had teachers that were bullies. Now, this was the 80s no, sorry, this was the 70s and one of my teachers was a former nun who brought that kind of behavior and I went to. By the way, I did go to private school too. I went to a Catholic school and my teachers there were mean and I don't know if that's bullying so much as they had a way, I mean most of us who were member nuns in the way they taught us and wrapped us on the knuckles with our, with those rulers, yeah, with the rulers To me that's bullying.
Speaker 1:So I suppose that would have been my first Would be the people that were there to care for me, teach me and guide me Began the process of treating me like less than or what have you. Now, simultaneously, I will say I had a sexual bully because at that time I was being molested from age 5 to 7. So I was being bullied by my babysitters. If you want to think of sexual molestation as a type of bullying, because it's a power dynamic, I think it falls into the category absolutely.
Speaker 1:But then the real bullying began in middle school. And that's where I feel like the torture began For me, the playground torture, the coupled with and I've always had teachers that did not back me up, but I also had teachers that participated in that behavior, so mine started pretty early, I would say.
Speaker 2:So let's skip to this one, because I feel like it just kind of flows better, even though I had it laid out differently. So I know that each of your parents had different individual philosophies on how you should be dealing with your bullying. So let's start with how your parents found out you were getting bullied, and then what?
Speaker 1:the conflicting messages were Well, it's probably the same way most parents find out is that your child is a problem child. Most bullying situations you've seen it in movies the bully never gets caught. It's the person who responds, it's the person who's getting bullied, who acts out in either self-defense or whatever. That gets caught nine times out of ten and they're the ones who get to go to the principal's office and I was at the principal's office constantly because I was getting into fights and you know both children are being punished.
Speaker 1:Nobody cares about who the bully is, it's just that the kids are fighting. You know it's a very different world in 1976 and 1978, and the 80s than it is today, today there's much more awareness.
Speaker 1:There's certainly much more support. You have school counselors, you have that kind of stuff. We didn't have that. So there was no one to go talk to, there was no school counselor, there was no source for you to confide in and there was no interest in your side of things. Nobody cared about what your side of it is. You know Just two kids are causing trouble and you're both being punished If both of you got caught.
Speaker 1:Yes, I don't recall other than my bullies getting caught early, and I think that's what makes bullies really good at being bullies. I think they know. I think they know when to attack. I think they know what to do and what to say. I think they know how to provoke and how to interrogate, or gaslight, if you will, which we didn't have that term either. I think they know when a teacher is looking and when a teacher is not looking. I think they've checked those things out and they're very good at it. They've got that skill set and that gives them a sense of power and authority over you. Now, coupled with the fact that most of the bullies were also bigger and stronger, and that's sort of typical, I suppose, of a bully. I was always at the center of it and my mom was a very anti-violence person.
Speaker 1:You don't solve things with fists. You don't solve things with violence. She was Just ignore them, They'll go away. Well, you must have done something to provoke them. You must have said or done something to make them do X, Y and Z.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of that.
Speaker 1:A lot of you know what are you doing that's causing this. My dad wanted me to learn how to defend myself. My mom refused to let him teach me how to fight back, because violence is not the answer, and you're not supposed to date and blah, blah, blah blah.
Speaker 1:And so because I was not skilled at defending myself physically, I became skilled at defending myself vocally. I developed at a very, very early age a caustic and sarcastic and biting wit and tongue. I began to see character flaws in other people very quickly that I could then use and call out when something was happening. It would and in antagonate, antagonize. Thank you.
Speaker 2:Antagonize.
Speaker 1:Antagonize Right, I was thinking of interrogate. It would antagonize them and it would usually make things worse, you know, for me, but it was about, it was my only recourse. Really, I became so bound and constricted and paralyzed by my bullies that I would usually end up on the ground in a ball covering my head and face to protect myself and, yeah, field position Crumbling, if you will, under it because I didn't know anything else to do, and then I would get my shit out sideways, I would, you know, later on, with sarcasm and passive, aggressive, you know remarks and things you know would get them out and that, of course, would instigate new retaliation from bullies and from people, because I would piss them off and I would have to say I mean, I was mean, you know. I would probably say I was pretty mean at some of the things I would say about these individuals you know as my own form of retaliation, because I had no other method and I had no, I had no recourse or resource. I had no other one to talk to about these things, to find out how to handle my emotions and handle my thinking around it. So it became a battleground. School was a battleground.
Speaker 1:Every day for me was a battleground of new forms and styles of torture that I would have to either take on and endure or learn how to avoid and run, or how to navigate the space my spaces, I mean. The constant energy that I spent navigating my spaces to avoid running into and dealing with and getting caught by my bullies is ridiculous. It's absolutely fucking ridiculous that any child would have to spend the amount of energy that I did trying to figure out how to avoid certain hallways, how to get to my locker, to get my things in a certain time period so I wouldn't run into certain people, how to get to my bicycle, where to park my bicycle, where to lock up my bicycle. I couldn't put it at the bike racks because they knew that's where I would go. So now I had to come up with new ideas and new ways of parking my bike or locking my bike or hiding my bike or doing something with it in order to get away from them.
Speaker 1:It was, it was just nonstop and it was for years. You know I had kids running. I had kids would run, chase me home from Dartmouth Elementary with bags of shit, dog shit that they would throw at me. Like who does this? Like what children are being raised to do this kind of stuff? What kind of parents are we that our kids are doing this and we don't know? You know?
Speaker 2:Well, and it makes me think from how you were describing it earlier, the whole you know kind of character, makeup of a bully sounds almost word for word like how one would describe a narcissist. So like are those two tied together? I wonder what the Venn diagram like, how much overlap there is between bullying and childhood and like hardcore narcissism later in life.
Speaker 1:That would be an interesting comparison to make. Well, and, by the way you know, I would think that a lot of these kids probably don't even remember that they did it.
Speaker 1:Half of them grow up and forget completely that they even behaved this way. You know, like when you, there was a couple of incidences where I talked to people about high school reunions, you know, who had a very different perspective on how they treated me and how I was. You know, and it just shocks me sometimes that I wonder what percentage of our own mental filters and perspectives helped to create an environment or at least let us think we were in an environment that was worse than it was. That was, you know, and that's part of it. I mean, our perspective is being developed, our filters are being developed. When we're young and we see the world, we experience the world, we learn through the world from our filters and through our perspectives, which color and change everything about what we experience. And if we're developing them at such a young age and we're developing skewed filters with skewed perspectives on how we are loved, appreciated and valued in this world, what does that do to us on our entire path?
Speaker 2:How does that affect?
Speaker 1:and shape every single choice we make for the rest of our lives. It has to impact it and color it in a lot of different ways. I'm very proud of my life and I'm very. I won't take away any of the abuse. I would never go back and say I wish I was never raped, harmed, bullied, punished, beaten, whatever those things are. All the difficult tragedies that I went through. I don't wish them on anybody, of course, but I also know that I am who I am today because that's part of my fabric, that's part of the weave to my tapestry.
Speaker 1:And my tapestry is a big, beautiful, large, colorful experience of many different things, and to take those threads out would change every, and I'm not saying it wouldn't change it for the better. I have absolutely no idea.
Speaker 2:Well, you don't know what you don't know.
Speaker 1:And I heard a speaker. I wish I could reference him. I feel bad that I can't remember. He made a reference about when we teach children about low-hanging fruit meaning here's what's available to you, here's what you can reach, here's what you can grasp they will grasp, always for the low-hanging fruit. But when you teach a child what is possible, they might reach for the top of the tree. And I wonder how many times I just reached for the nearest low-hanging fruit Because, a I thought that's what I deserved. B I thought that's the only thing I could get. And C I thought this is as far as my reach will go and I better get that fruit If I'm going to get any at all, I guess.
Speaker 1:I better get that fruit. So for me, I think, when I look back on it, I wonder would I have been able to become more, would I have achieved something more? High school would not have been such a struggle for me educationally, administratively and therefore I could have excelled at certain things in school, from a standpoint of grades and acumen, that I didn't achieve, Mainly because I was so distracted by all the other things that I was dealing with. So then, when I go on to college, I don't have good grades, I can't get as much, I don't get into good schools. All of those things I feel like could have been impacted and might have been different had I had less abuse to deal with and less distraction in my energy to navigating the minefield.
Speaker 1:that was my bullying and my experience, and that's Lola by the way, I'm sure. If anyone heard her meow that's. Lola, she's a little love bug.
Speaker 2:I know, I tried to get her into bed and she's not cooperating so she's on my lap.
Speaker 1:We love our children, our four babies.
Speaker 2:So let's go into, because you just kind of discussed a little bit about how bullying shaped your life. Do you feel that it made you stronger in any way? Or, and if so, how do you feel about that, knowing that you're an anti-bullying activist?
Speaker 1:basically, so I've been thinking a lot about this, because you and I have been talking about this all month. We've been exploring this avenue and I've been exploring some of my journal writings and some of my stuff that I have, my content that I have for my blogs and things that I want to write that I want to put out there, that I just got started on this, so it's not like something.
Speaker 1:I've been doing for a long time, although I have been writing and I do have these stories. I was struggling with the idea of do I feel stronger because of this and what I have come to, what I've decided? I'm strong because of how I responded. I am not stronger because of the bullying.
Speaker 1:I think we can make strong children into strong adults through a lot of different kinds of teaching and I don't think bullying should be one of them. I think you can make a strong character and it builds strong character and build a strong ethics and strong moral fiber and strong everything using other methods. And yes, am I stronger because of it? Probably I probably have developed a lot of certain strengths and qualities I would not have developed otherwise. But are those in service of me or to a disservice of me? And I think for a while they were in service of me because they helped protect me or they helped guide me or they helped become a fuel that I used to burn myself, to prove myself, to prove other people wrong.
Speaker 1:This idea that I had of my self-worth and my self-value came out of a world of bullying and I responded to it. Now there are others that I know, people in my life, friends that I've had, who responded differently to theirs, who succumbed to the bully, who introverted, who closed off their light, who dumbed down, reduced themselves, made themselves smaller, quieted their voice, hid and didn't speak up and didn't share as often and didn't express as much and didn't volunteer and didn't put themselves out there and stopped growing and stopped shining and stopped whatever, and people who became victims and used their victimhood status to become part of their character and their life and their perspective and their filter, and that shaped them. That wasn't me. I was, I suppose, in some weird way battle-ready and prepared to take on everyone in the world, but that's also because I thought I saw everyone in the world as a bully.
Speaker 1:I saw every opportunity and moment as one where I had to be in self-defense mode and prepared to defend myself, to attack, to run, to hide, to navigate, to you know. And yeah, that built a lot of skills and it built a lot of really fucked-up skills that I then used because all I had was a hammer when I needed a screwdriver, because all I had was a screwdriver when I needed a saw. Like, I had only a certain set of skills and certain set of tools in my toolbox that I used to protect myself and to navigate my world and they worked great under certain circumstances and didn't work well under others, and because of that, I believed that I navigated towards the circumstances where those tools served me best and that meant more violence and more sabotage and more risk and more chaos Because I understood how to play in that playground.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm. So I have a touch of a different perspective. I don't think that the bullying made you stronger. I think that you were born with a very innate strength and sense of fortitude. I think it, probably. I think the bullying brought those qualities forward earlier in your life than may have otherwise been necessary. I mean, the rest of it is pretty spot-on. But I don't think the bullying made you stronger. I think you were strong to begin with and it just brought out your strengths. Maybe not in the ideal way, but you know it was the 70s and the 80s. Bullying was A part of life. It was, oh, you know, oh, whatever, michael's being bullied again, oh, well, you know. And? And how many parents in this day and age Would just sit there and go okay, well, don't ignore them, go, you know it'll, it'll work itself out.
Speaker 1:Oh, everybody goes.
Speaker 2:You know, parents are getting over principles and teachers involved and taking kids to therapy, which is all great and all needed, and it just sometimes it's just so disappointing that parents were so Out of it.
Speaker 1:I think they I mean we know they did the best they could, and that's always a caveat.
Speaker 2:I know they did.
Speaker 1:For all of us, even the parents today, by the way. If you're a current parent, guess what you did? The best you could, you're gonna do the best you can, and then someone's gonna look back and go well. They did the best they could. I don't know if that's good enough. I Don't know. And I, and, and, and, while I love my parents and you know, even though our mom's gone, but I Would, never blame her for any of that, you know.
Speaker 1:I mean, it would never blame either of them for for it. They did what they understood how to do, but I don't write, a lot of which was passed on parents should sit back and go well, I did the best I could know you gotta do better.
Speaker 1:You have to be more engaged and more involved in a way that says I Want to make sure I understand what my child is going through and not dismiss those moments when their lives are being affected by something in someone. And I know you're busy and I get that. We all have, you know distractions and life takes on these things and Sometimes our kids don't even all us what's happening to them and they don't communicate.
Speaker 2:But we have one opportunity to get it right with one chance and well, something, yeah, something I find very Fascinating is and it's just kind of clicked into place in my brain is we see so many people Talking about oh well, I'm going, you know, I'm taking this continuing education class so I can do better at my job for this, or I'm gonna go to this conference so I can learn more about that, or I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna do that. We study all of these different things and all of these different aspects of our life. How many parents are studying and learning about being better parents?
Speaker 2:It's like so many people strive to be better in all of these aspects of their life and this one needs a little, a Little help sometimes and there's nothing wrong with that, like we shouldn't. I think there's too much reliance on the concept of natural parenting skills and how far they will take you in developing your you know and helping your child to develop into the person that you want them to be, and I think there's More of that out there. I think there's content out there for parents and, and, and. Anyway, it just it makes me wonder how many people actually do that well, not many.
Speaker 1:And we don't have to, because there's no requirement to be a parent. You can have sex and have a baby.
Speaker 1:Oh, there's no, there's no class you have to take. There's no light you have to have a license to drive a car or fish or hunt or do anything. You have to be trained and take a class on some. But I will tell you, probably 85% of all kids get it, that get born, are born accidentally. They're born because it wasn't planned, which means you weren't ready, which means you weren't prepared to be a parent, which means, all of a sudden, your parenting a child that you don't know anything about. You know nothing about this other than what your parents taught you. And if that's an example of what we have Our parents who just did the best they could, and that's the caveat we leave ourselves, that's the disc, that's the disclaimer Disclaimer.
Speaker 1:Every generation says Then, yeah, as a society, no, we're not doing better as a society. We don't put this first. We don't have parenting classes in school. They don't have classes on Development, any kind of character development of any kind, like how to become a better person, ethics and morals and standards. We don't have any of that. We leave that up to the Parents. We live that up to the churches in the schools, like women, the churches. We don't even leave it up to the school. So I'm not sure that I should be surprised, or any of us should be surprised, that we end up the way we do. In fact, I am surprised. I'm more surprised that we don't end up with the worst society, that we don't end up with more terrifying situations which we do, by the way.
Speaker 2:We're the number one country on the world today isn't even more fucked up that it?
Speaker 1:I don't know the number one country in the world with Killers and people killing children in schools. Look at our society, I mean look what we have. Look at the record.
Speaker 2:Why not?
Speaker 1:and then we wonder how could this happen? Well, look at what we've got and look at where we are, like if we decided that this was important to raise better kids. We're not doing it. We're simply not doing it Anywhere you know, some parents are.
Speaker 1:Congratulations to those of you who take the time and really make an effort, congratulations to some of the schools that have a really good program. But when we look at a country that is developed on and based on the idea of a free education that is consistent and equal for all, which is not it's not at all period.
Speaker 1:We are failing, we're failing our kids, we're failing our future. And if I mean that's the recipe for a disaster, how do we expect to get great Americans and great and a great future out of that recipe? You know, especially when we don't put time and energy into ensuring that that what our kids get in terms of their experience Is a loving, embracing and knowledgeable and accepting experience. You know, and if we're going to allow the alternative by not providing Better resources, better opportunity, better equal, you know, class, the instruction classes and environments and safer environments, we have ourself to blame.
Speaker 1:We only have ourselves to blame for what we get and we only have ourselves to blame for the dead children and we only have ourselves to blame for the bullying and for the pain and the torture that it causes, and lifetimes of People who have experiences and will continue to have experiences, and kids that will grow up with these experiences because we aren't prepared to change, and that's, I Guess that's you know.
Speaker 1:I don't know if that's my message, but I guess that's just how it is, how I see it. I suppose maybe that's me being bitter, apologies for the birds and the sounds, but Okay, so that last conversation led us into the the next question perfectly.
Speaker 2:If you had children, what would you Teach them and what would you tell them if they were being bullied?
Speaker 1:Well, and I'm sure I'm gonna hear a lot of this from from, from people out there who are like you don't have kids, you wouldn't know, and it's that kind of thinking that means you're not ready to learn. Mm-hmm, I, if you don't want to hear my story in my perspective as a person who was bullied, then you don't want to hear anyone else's either.
Speaker 1:Like yeah, then just don't listen and keep on not listening and don't change, like I get that you may think because I don't have kids, I don't know which I think is bullshit. We know we Lived through it. We were kids once. All of us have a story and all of us have a memory and all of us have an experience that we can call on. That was not pleasurable and was not good and was not kind, and none of us likes it. So, yeah, guess what? You probably have a bully in your life. You probably have a kid who's be, who's going to bully someone at some point I did. I was bullied and then I bullied like I used my mouth and I got to bully other people. You know, I mean, it's something you learn and pass on it, something you do. It's reflexive.
Speaker 2:Even when it's retaliatory, exactly even when it's retaliatory, and I see it as self-defense.
Speaker 1:It is still a form of bullying, mm-hmm, and it harms people, and so there is no space in here where we get to give ourselves and our kids a pass just because you think you know better or your kids are better, or you think you because someone else doesn't have kids, that they don't know better. We can learn from everybody's experiences, and if we really truly want to create a world in a better place where bullying does not exist, then we have to talk to our kids, we have to accept that we Mm-hmm may not have the answers, but we need to find out from them what's going on.
Speaker 1:So I guess if I had kids I would be up there, but Probably With wanting to know how things are going in school, I would be that I would sneak in and monitor, like I would come to school and be like I'll sit at the back of the classroom and be like I'm watching, which is probably gonna make a worse experience for my children, like, oh my god, my dad's here, like I Would want to be that.
Speaker 1:You know, I understand that helicopter parenting thing like you don't. I mean you're hovering over them constantly because you want them to have a Good experience, but you're also wanting to monitor who's behaving poorly around them and what kind of influence are they having and what kind of things are they going through. And it's it's a very challenging Way to be because, on one hand, you want to leave them to their own Experiences so that they can develop their own Experiences, they can make some judgment calls about their experiences. But at the same time, like you know, I Guess I would. I would, on the first thing, I would establish and develop a way to have I would take classes, courses, whatever. I Would teach myself how to dialogue with a child.
Speaker 1:I would, I would take some kind of class and I would have, hopefully, a consistent and ongoing relationship with a therapist, psychologist, philosopher, whoever it is, who is my Sounding board for my relationship with my kids, so that I could be always talking about what's Difficult and challenging for me, so that I could get feedback and advice from somebody who knows well and knows better a Child psychologist, if you will about how to communicate and how to speak to and how to Relate to my kids. I Do realize that by the time they hit teens it's up in me Game over. I mean, you got a tiny little window right there up to about 10 and 11 and then all of a sudden they don't care what you have to say anymore and everything that comes out of your mouth is well, well on. They're never gonna hear you. And that's just because they're trying. They're, they're going 90 miles an hour developing their own.
Speaker 2:Person wanting to chart their own course.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and they want to be different. They want it'll want to be like you. They want to be like something else. They don't know what it is, of course, and they have no idea, and if you ask them, they couldn't tell you. You know, give me a 500 word essay and they wouldn't be able to write 10 words on who they are and what they've walked out of life.
Speaker 2:But they could certainly say it isn't you and it certainly doesn't look like and then, when they grow up and they reflect back, all of the best qualities they have were inherited from their parents or learned or both, and that I can say 100 freaking percent.
Speaker 1:My parents were awesome people. My friend, my Okay mom was awesome. She's gone mom was my dad is.
Speaker 2:Dad to be a person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and he's an incredible. He's an incredible human being and his wife is also.
Speaker 1:You know, these are incredible humans that I have learned they are to have and develop a Such a beautiful relationship with that I didn't see when I was a teen, but I think that's important.
Speaker 1:I do think that that's part of our right of passage, if you will, for us to deny that which is the expression of our parents and what we see around us, so that we can go out and become our own thing. The very Rejection of everything that was my parents and what they wanted for me was my way of going and becoming and finding my own path. And I see a lot of kids these days who don't even do that, who have no desire to try, have no ambition to become anything other than and don't look and don't want us to get out of their parents, home and the comfort zone that is mom and dad, that is the comfort blanket, that it is the, the, the financial support and all those things they are fine with not trying and getting out, and I think that's terrible. I think they're not gonna develop. I Don't think. I don't think that necessarily the way that.
Speaker 1:I did it specifically is the best way either, like rejecting everything and going out and Trying everything until you nearly cure yourself is not the best way either.
Speaker 1:But having a healthy sense of adventure and risk, healthy sense of risk.
Speaker 1:Let me say this again having a healthy sense of risk, developing a healthy sense of risk, is a skill set that you're going to do. Whether your parents teach it to you or not. You will develop your own sense of risk and if it is, if it is a small, little, tiny version of risk, you're not gonna try things in life. You're not gonna try things in life. You're not gonna go out and grow, you're not gonna expand past the borders of your own little experience and your own little world and then you're gonna judge and you're having a shortened and narrow perspective of the world around you and you will be smaller. So if you want to shine your light and you want to grow and you want to be bigger, I would teach my kids to express themselves, to find their most authentic voice, to not be afraid of being shamed and being told that who and what you are and how you dress and how you want to express yourself is wrong or bad. And this society at where the rewards conformity can go to hell like Conforming is not healthy.
Speaker 1:I Don't name one scenario where conforming is is good. That isn't a result of a negative impact.
Speaker 2:No, and Brené Brown talks about the importance of belonging versus the concept of fitting in. And if you're fitting in, you're changing yourself based on the situation you're in where, if you belong, you're being accepted for who you truly are.
Speaker 1:But that's because we have a society that rewards conforming. We have schools.
Speaker 2:Well, it does, I think I think the pendulum is is coming back the other way, and I I definitely with With the people I know who are parents. That's definitely where I see a big change compared to our parents Is they're doing a much better job of allowing their kids to be who they are and develop into who they want to be, without basically squashing it like like we had yeah, well, I mean, we're seeing.
Speaker 1:We were kind of, you know, to that point. I think we're seeing the battleground has been laid On one side of this fence. You've got parents like you're describing, who are embracing and supporting and encouraging their kids to find Themselves and to dress how they want and to wear makeup or not wear makeup or whatever they need to be to express themselves, to find their true authenticity, right which?
Speaker 1:by the way nobody wants to wait till they're 40 or 50 to figure that out. Like life's gone already half of it's over by the time you go. I'm not living my authentic life and my purpose. And then you wonder why you're not happy and you wonder why you struggle and you're Wonder why your relationships are good and you wonder why your marriage fall apart. Well, guess what? It's because we are raised to conform and not be our authentic selves.
Speaker 1:And now the the battlegrounds are being laid and we've got bullies out there like DeSantis and Abbott, grab gunner Abbott and others who are Big time bullies telling us and our children you can't learn this, you can't read this, you can't express yourself this way, you can't dress like that, you can't be. You have to be exactly what we tell you, you have to be according to our rules. Whatever those are who gave them the power and the authority to make these suggestions, who told anyone in our society that you get to tell other people how to be, other than, I suppose, societal rules about killing and murdering and Running red lights? Like why do you get to tell anyone at all how they get to be, other than to say Be your best self, be the most most beautiful and all that. In fact, I would. I would challenge anyone who told me that God didn't want us to be the most beautiful Versions of ourselves, that we didn't come down here to become and to be the most beautiful expression of who we want to be. Nope, I'm gonna make you in my image, but don't be big. I'm gonna make you my image, but don't be bright. I'm gonna make you my image, but don't be colorful.
Speaker 1:Did he say that to the butterflies and the zebras and everybody else? And fucking it? You know a nature? No, be one color, monochromistic and be like that all the time. No, he didn't. We aren't. We shouldn't be. Whether you believe in God or not, this world is a colorful, abundant world of diversity, and why can't humans be an expression of that diversity? Why can't we be that? And that's what bullying is. It's trying to take away your diversity and your authenticity. It's trying to dumb you down. It's trying to shut off your light and blow out your candle. Well, I think we need, we need, we need people who are heroes in that regard, that help hold our light up and protect our light and Keep it protected from the storm, the storm that is, the bullies of society in this world. That would shut us down and shut our lights off and just be like you can't be who you want to be in this world.
Speaker 1:Well, nobody gave you the right, so go away, you know just go go away, go be wherever you want to be and do whatever you want to do, but don't take that right from other people and don't push it on other people. I know they think that those of us who are Leftist or whatever you want to call it, those who want to express ourselves, are pushing our lives on you. We're not asking you to change. We're not asking you to do anything different. Mm-hmm, you don't have to adjust.
Speaker 1:We're sharing our experiences you don't have to adjust how you live. You don't have to adjust the type of clothes you wear, what you read, what you watch. You don't have to anything. In fact, you can. You can actually change the channel and do whatever you'd like and not see those things if you want to. But you can't shut us out. You can't tell birds not to fly. You can't tell butterflies not to be colorful. You can't tell zebras to get rid of their stripes. It doesn't work, it never will and it's not going to and we're not going anywhere. Colorful, beautiful, diverse humans is what we should embrace. And as bullies in school, one of the first things they do is teach us to hate ourselves. They teach others to hate on us. They encourage it.
Speaker 2:Kids that gather around because they pick on all the things that are wrong. Oh well, they're perceived as wrong.
Speaker 1:They make that determination right right 67 to 68 percent of students if they, if they see bullying, don't say anything. That's the other problem. This is what I would teach my kids. One Embrace your authenticity and embrace your weirdness and embrace whatever it is that makes you you and go find that To. If you see anybody doing differently, if you see anybody Harming somebody else or taking away their light, you defend them. And you either defend them by stepping up or you defend them by speaking up. So those are two things you stop up or you speak up.
Speaker 1:One or the other right so I Guess that answers that question, but that was a big.
Speaker 2:That was a big roundabout, kind of sorry tangential journey there, but that's okay. So now that we circled back around to the point, it is a road I didn't say the last question- Sorry. Let's let's look at the opposite side of that scenario. If you had children and you found out one of your children was a bully, how would you handle that?
Speaker 1:That's hard, because part of me would be very.
Speaker 2:Oh, for sure.
Speaker 1:Like how dare you? You know, and I would it would be very challenging not to shame them into.
Speaker 1:You know, how dare you behave this way, whatever? How? I've never taught you to do this. Who do you think you are? But I think something's going on there.
Speaker 1:I think most bullies are bullied. I think most bullies are in pain, hurt people, hurt people. It's the truth. And most bullies are coming from a home space, an Environment that is giving them cause to out lash or or or lash out Sorry to lash out and and that's coming from a pain that they're carrying. So something's wrong, mm-hmm, I mean something's harmed them and they are lashing out at others because they're hurting.
Speaker 1:Now the rare incidents, I suppose, is a child with psychological and mental challenges, that that emotional challenges they're in their development. I mean that needs to be addressed and if you're paying attention and you need to get support, obviously, like I was saying, if I had that child psychologist or friend or person or whatever that I rely on, it's now time to have that Meeting. It's now time to set up those appointments. It's now time to begin that dialogue and allow them to speak now, if that it most likely. If your child, if you discover your child's a bully, they're not talking to you, they're not coming to you for help, but they're not turning to you for some sort of resource they're lashing out because they can't Use you. They look, hear you, so they're gonna need to get you out of there, you, so they're gonna need an alternative source to talk to, and I think one of the other things that I would probably Do for my kids is make sure they had a mentor In the brothers and spig brothers and big sisters club of America, mm-hmm, something similar like that, where they have someone that's older, that's not a parent that they can turn to and they can talk to in it in a way that's different than me.
Speaker 1:You know, our kids just shut their ears off when they get to a certain age. They just can't hear it come from you, and you and somebody else could say the same exact thing you just said to your child and all of a sudden they're like oh, so it's a little off. Fifth, I don't know why you never said it that way.
Speaker 2:Well, I totally did the other day and you've only told you every day for the last 10 years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, but that's in their development and that's because they develop a filter against you and that's, I really believe that's part of our upbringing, it's part of our hormonal and mental and emotional and psychological development, that we have to stop listening to this and try something new. That's just part of what we do as humans, I think, is when we grow and bless you if you're a parent who has a really positive health relationship with your child, who doesn't reject you. That's amazing. I think that'd be pretty cool.
Speaker 1:But I do think that's part of development, I think making sure or ensuring that not just the circle of friends that they have, but there's that other adult that you know, that you trust, that you know they can always talk to and they have a different relationship with that person than they do with you. I think that would be crucial to ensuring that they have another resource to talk to in case they get into one of these scenarios where you can't communicate with them.
Speaker 2:So your experience with bullying and you mentioned it earlier today and I've heard a few stories included your teachers as some of your tormentors. So tell us a little bit about that and then, if you want to, if not, or we can I do just make me think about what happened.
Speaker 1:It just makes me angry. It just makes me, it does make. It still makes me angry today when I look back and be really sink into it.
Speaker 2:So what would you so let's skip that part and not get into the anger If you could speak to those teachers today that were bullies towards you, what would you say to them?
Speaker 1:It's tough, I think you know. Are you aware or do you have any idea the damage you did? Hmm, Number one, number two and maybe you, as an adult, thought this was educational or constructive or creative, or I don't know how you painted the picture for yourself or what filters and perspectives you had that said, it was okay to put me in a cardboard box at the front of the class and let kids write on it. I don't know what told you. It was okay to let kids make cutouts of my footprint and write my names on it and then tape them to the floor of the building from the front door leading to my desk, because Michael couldn't find his way to his desk on time. So let's help him piloting everybody, tape a footprint with his name and write it on there.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, I don't know what told you, it was okay to when I talk too much, put me under your desk and shove my sock in my mouth and let the kids watch what I don't know. I have no idea why you thought this was okay.
Speaker 1:I don't know where this idea of behavior as a teacher came from, but I can tell you it's not teaching. It certainly isn't teaching the right things. It's teaching the other kids. They can behave this way and hate on a child. It's teaching the other children that it's fine to torture this kid. It's okay to pick on him, because I have a proof and shown you that he is not of value, that he is less than everybody else, and you may pick on him.
Speaker 1:So I don't know what I would say to them, other than I'm so angry at you for this and I can't imagine who else you did this to. How many kids went through your class, year after year after year, that you did this to. I mean, I imagine today, well, they're probably dead, but I managed and eventually they got weeded out, because we don't allow that in schools anymore. The teachers get called out on that stuff. Kids won't put up with this, but we didn't have that power and I don't know. It just makes me angry that humans would treat kids this way and use their classroom as a public forum for emotional and psychological fucking torture. It just don't understand, yeah it's horrible, it's horrific, it's so disturbing.
Speaker 1:That's why it makes me angry, because I don't have any place to put that, I don't know what to do with it, and I know, and I'm pretty sure at least I hope I am that teachers don't do that these days and kids have way more power than they used to, way more power than we ever had, to speak up and say something, and yet they treat each other like crap and let there's bullies and stuff in school, like, even though they have the authority and the power to do stuff, and teachers no longer have the authority to punish which I think, by the way, was probably pretty good to a degree. They no longer have the authority to do that, to control kids the way that they used to. You know, and I feel like that's also a bit of a disservice.
Speaker 1:I think consequences and punishment are two different things.
Speaker 1:I think, we need to be taught consequences and there need to be consequences for our actions, but we also need to be taught that there's an equitable way of what that looks like. And it's really unfortunate because the environment, that a school, where we exist inside that world right, where things are equitable, it doesn't exist. It didn't even exist in the real world. But we're supposed to try to make it exist for kids when they're growing up. We're supposed to try to create an environment that is both safe and equitable, that they can have a safe environment where they can not just learn about life and learn the lessons, and learn school and education and things like that, but also have a way to develop as a human in any equitable environment, and I just don't think that that exists either.
Speaker 2:Well, no, we don't have one in our society, and especially not in American culture, and that's a whole different conversation for entirely different episodes, so we won't go any further on that one. So how can our schools and teachers do better in the fight? Open forums against bullying?
Speaker 1:Open forums, open forums, open forums, open forums there has to be. You have to shine light. Shame and this kind of behavior cannot exist when light is shined on it, when love and forgiveness and open talking and communicated forum is provided. We had school assemblies regularly but that was to announce stuff to us. That wasn't to help us dialogue about our feelings, that wasn't to help us talk about what goes on. I mean, I would imagine a place where kids are encouraged to join and participate in an ongoing forum of communication to learn how to communicate not only the feelings you're having but to share them in front of others in a safe environment that allows the expression of our feelings in front of other people. And that's one thing.
Speaker 1:We're never taught as kids, we're never allowed as kids in schools. I mean, maybe they are today, I don't know. I'm not there so I don't have a teacher and somebody in the current program or format that can share that with me. But I can tell you right now they're not consistent and they're not across the board. They're not in every school, they're not in every school system. They may be occasional at some schools and some forums and some classrooms with some teachers, but they're certainly on a consistent platform where we encourage kids to learn how to discuss and have an open dialogue and an open forum about their experiences with one another, not just with adults, with each other.
Speaker 1:The playground is not a format and a platform for this. The playground isn't. That's not that space. And if we're going to teach kids on how to express themselves accordingly, appropriately, and we're going to teach them how to share their world and their space with one another without harming themselves or harming other people as a result because we all get angry, we all get upset, we might harm other people to do something in a lash out, and that's just normal, but doing it in a cloistered and closed off environment, creating shame or darkness around it, hiding it from others and not discussing it, that isn't productive at all for anybody ever.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I would tell schools you need to create a system where we begin to teach kids at a very young age how to have an open dialogue and an open forum in front of other people about your experience and your thoughts and your feelings. One, with expressing them appropriately and accordingly, without attacking and harming and saying other bad things. And two, receiving information and understanding what that person is going through without shaming them or bullying them or punishing them. There's a power dynamic we develop as kids. That is part of our human development and you will either learn to develop that power dynamic and use it to either take it out on other people or you will use it to empower yourself.
Speaker 1:And there's a shift that goes on here right, and that practice of establishing my space in this world is what each child has to do, and if they're taught that expressing themselves and having an opinion and being who they are is bad, they will shut themselves down and lash out Because there's no place for that energy to go, there's no place for that expression to go. So they either will harm themselves or harm somebody they know, or they will lash out on other people.
Speaker 1:There is no healthy outcome with that kind of behavior and I hope that schools are doing better and I hope that parents and teachers are trying to find a way. But I listen to the news and I hear the things that are going on on our school systems and the frustration that parents have and the frustrations that teachers are going through, and there doesn't seem to be any space available for this and I think that's very, very sad. I think it's very sad because I think we're going to end up with generations of kids that are harshly broken, moving through the world, taking on responsibilities and jobs through that lens and to me that's not reaching for the top of the tree. That's low hanging fruit and it's usually rotten. There's a reason why they call it low hanging fruit, because it's usually not good.
Speaker 2:Right, do you have a message for your bullies? Is there anything you'd like to say to them?
Speaker 1:It's okay. You don't have to tell other people to feel good and I'm sorry that you were hurt. I'm sorry that something was done to you. In fact, it's been done, I'm sure, to all of us. If you could only know.
Speaker 1:You know everybody gets hurt at some point, but there's better ways to express ourselves than taking it out on another human being and I would like for you to know you can be loved and you can be appreciated differently, and it's okay if others don't understand you. But please don't bully, please don't harm other people. If you need a place and a way to express yourself, think hard and long before you do it at the end of a fist, before you do it at the end of a caustic comment or cyber bullying on your phones. There's a better world out there for all of us if we all learn to respect and value other human beings and their experiences. Whether we like their experiences or not, whether we judge their experiences or not, whether we understand their experiences or not. It is not for us to judge, it is not for us to decide, it is not for us to punish and harm. It is for us to learn and accept and embrace their differences and their uniqueness, especially if we want them to embrace ours.
Speaker 2:You know, I don't know if that's helpful Very well said Is there anything else that you want to share with us today? Is there any specific one message or anything that you want people to take from your story other than don't bully? Yes, I guess, which is pretty clear at this point.
Speaker 1:That's what I've done with the, with the Fearless Road. I think, in a sort of roundabout way, I've created my own platform in space where those of us who've experienced trial and tribulation, who've experienced tragedy and difficulties and challenges, have grown up and become individuals in a world where we have to build our own lives and our own businesses using these skill sets and, as a result, we end up somewhere down that path and down that road when the challenges that we face are now part of this tool set and skill set that we had to develop in order to face the world we live in. And this is a community where we get to express that. This is a community where we get to share that. This is a community where those tools and those skills that we've used to deal with fear, to deal with our challenges, with our own personal field Because, by the way, you might have bullied me and you might have been mean to me when I was a kid, but it's nothing compared to the shit I did to myself.
Speaker 1:As a result, I became my own worst enemy, I became my own bully, I became my own torturer because I didn't learn to love myself, and I didn't learn to love myself because of how I was treated Because I was told I wasn't valuable.
Speaker 2:No, you believed your bullies. Yes, eventually, and you bought in.
Speaker 1:Even though I fought it as a kid, even though I tried to fight it.
Speaker 1:I will tell you that sunk in those words and that were repeated, and that behavior that was repeated and all of that eventually became a broken record in my head that I began to believe, I began to act on right and now I built a life and a career using that set of skills.
Speaker 1:It has served a lot of people.
Speaker 1:It has come to in use in a number of ways and perhaps today the best of all of those is the Fearless Road, where I get to reach out to other people who are also using those skillsets on their Fearless Road, try to develop a life and a business and a cause and a message based on a set of filters and tools and skillsets that perhaps only taught us to reach for the low hanging fruit.
Speaker 1:And what you and I are trying to do is reach for the top of the tree, and we're constantly trying to reach for that top of the tree and I'm here for you, I'm here for that, I'm here to celebrate that and to reward that, and if you need that kind of encouragement, if you need that kind of platform, if you need that kind of dialogue that's what I'm here for is to help us look beyond the low hanging fruit and see that the top of the tree is just the beginning of what our potential, because we're beautiful humans who could do amazing things, and we should be told that and taught that and experienced that as often as possible.
Speaker 2:So I love that and that's that. I guess, I think that's it. Thank you so much for being so open and vulnerable. As you know, it's the theme of the podcast. However, it's different for you to do it more than the guests.
Speaker 1:It is different. And I do get on my soapboxes with my guests. I'm sure I get, I like to talk and I get down these candles and stuff, but it's I don't think I've looked at it holistically from a standpoint of like my life got here because of all of that. You know, it's been pieces for me and I think, looking at it from a distance and saying, wow, there's been all of this building and all of these incidences and everything and they have shaped you and you can't deny that that impact is real and it's there. But how can you begin to use it to give back? How can I begin? How can I begin to use it to give back? How can I begin to use it to make an impact of the world that is meaningful? And I feel like this is the space for me to try to do that. And it has to start with me If I'm going to ask other people to share. Giving a little bit of myself each time and allowing the creation of that safe space and that opportunity to express yourself and to dive deeper into those things.
Speaker 1:That I'm not feeling is rude. That's how we become fearless. We fear less of life, we fear less of risk, we fear less of opportunity, we fear less of ourselves. When we're ready to jump out there and reach for the stars and reach for the bigger fruit at the top of the tree, when we want to build something, when we want to do, be or have something other than what we are right now, to be greater and to be the greatest expression of the greatest diversion of ourselves that we possibly can be, then we have to begin to have dialogues and to open up spaces where that's possible. And then we got to ask what does it look like? What does that look like Having a world and a space where you can be the best version and the greatest version of you? And I think I challenge a lot of people out there to come with me to try.
Speaker 2:So thank you, Well, let's walk the fearless road then. Shall we.
Speaker 1:We shall, I'll pack a bag. We already are.
Speaker 1:Thanks everybody I really appreciate you all for being here and listening and lending your beautiful, wonderful ears for another dialogue here on the Fearless Road podcast. And then I'd like my sister, fedra Joanyaki, for being my host today. You will begin to see more of her on the show as she has opportunities to join me in the dialogue and conversations and do some of her own hosting, hopefully here in the future on the program. So if you want to know more, you want to do more, you want to be more, please reach out to us at thefearlessroadcom or on any of our social media channels. On what do we have? Instagram, linkedin and Facebook. You can find us there. Yeah, okay, so you know the message. Excellent, everybody be good to each other.
Speaker 2:And stay fearless, my friends, Okay much love. Have a good one.
Speaker 1:Bye Little.