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The Fearless Road
Entrepreneurial insights, stories, and advice on embracing fear, breaking boundaries, and achieving goals on the road to success.
Join Michael on a captivating odyssey down 'The Fearless Road' and brace yourself for a life-altering transformation. This groundbreaking podcast is not merely a conduit to success; it is a profound exploration of courage, authenticity, and the pursuit of passions. With each episode, Michael and his dedicated team embark on a quest to uncover the secrets to triumph and support the unwavering determination required to chase dreams fearlessly.
The Fearless Road is committed to exploring the road to success and empowering our audience to navigate this journey with confidence, resilience, and fearlessness. Pursuing your passions and being yourself requires tremendous inner strength and vulnerability. It’s important to consistently recognize and appreciate the confidence it takes to follow your heart and your dreams. Stay Fearless!
The Fearless Road
09. Lip Sync To Love: Cindy Austin's Transformative Journey into Love and Self-Discovery
Getting real about relationships can be tricky, but our latest episode of Fearless Road takes a deep dive into the human heart with Cindy Austin, a seasoned licensed counselor, teacher, mentor, and coach with over 22 years of expertise in romance, coupling, and dating relationships. Cindy, the developer of the unique program, Lip Sync for couples, takes us on a journey exploring the role of fear in relationships, and the importance of turning our struggles into stepping stones for success. Her insights, derived from her personal encounters with fear, provide a fresh perspective on the transformative power of dating and the delicate dance between love and fear.
This episode is a treasure trove of life lessons, as Cindy shares how authenticity, self-love, and conscious choices can help overcome fear in relationships. We venture into the world of entrepreneurship and the tension that often arises in dating relationships. Cindy emphasizes the power of perspective, urging listeners to shift from a scarcity mindset to one of abundance. She delves into her own experiences, sharing how recognizing and rewriting patterns that no longer serve us can lead us in our journey towards love.
As we wrap up, we spotlight the role of vulnerability in romance, and how it can enhance our personal and professional lives. Cindy's discussion on "conscious dating" and its potential to reshape our approach to relationships is not to be missed. This is an episode that's sure to resonate with anyone on a journey to find love, authenticity, and personal growth. Be sure to tune in, subscribe, and share the wisdom from our captivating conversation with Cindy Austin.
you, you, you, you. I'm going to turn off that. There we go, here we are in recording, so I'm turning on I recording In studio. All right, are you ready?
Cindy Austin:I'm ready.
Michael Devous:Awesome. Okay, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Fearless Road podcast. If you've been here before, you know the deal. We talked to entrepreneurs, business professionals, amazing people about their life, on their journey toward success, through the valleys and then up finally to the mountain where it looks like success can be made and can be had. But what we do really focus on is fear, and we like to talk about how fear shapes us and how fear impacts our lives as business peoples, entrepreneurs, as thought leaders, executives and things like that visionaries, because fear is a component of I believe fear is a crucial component of success in our lives and I believe that it is something that, if we can turn it into a tool and fuel, it can really propel us into areas of our lives that we may not have gone before, A and B, that we didn't know we could. And taking those challenges on is something I feel like entrepreneurs do every single day, and we are at the forefront of this territory.
Michael Devous:Somebody else at the forefront of this territory doing some incredible work, by the way, with Lowe, is the incredible Cindy Austin, with over 22 years as a licensed counselor, teacher, mentor, coach, specializing in romance, coupling, dating relationships and, of course, her new program oh, I just forgot the name of it. The new program that you've got, lip Sync. Lip Sync, yes, yes, gosh. Well, this is part of the reason why I need help. The new program Lip Sync for couples. She helps others discover how to define their own happiness and, when it comes to love and relationships, she not only holds your hand, but she holds you accountable. Ladies and gentlemen, please let's welcome Cindy Austin.
Cindy Austin:Thank you, thank you so much. You have to be here, I know.
Michael Devous:It's only taken us what like six months to finally get to this I forget it, I forget it.
Michael Devous:So I just but I first spotted you on the Speaker Lab and, ladies and gentlemen, most of you, if you've been listening along, you obviously know that I'm part of Speaker Lab. Speaker Lab is an incredible organization that helps us find our voice and then turn that into a message for the world. It's super, super amazing. But what's really cool about it is all the people that you meet on the Speaker Lab and just some smart, incredible people, and Cindy was one of the very first people, I think. I noticed you back in February.
Michael Devous:I was like I need to like mark you, so I tagged your profile for me and put it into my CRM. You know, like, pay attention to her and, you know, get her, get her involved and see if you can get her on the show. But then when I saw what you were doing, with lip sync and with love, I was like, oh wow, this is, I mean, if fear doesn't come up in your life at all, lucky you. If it comes to love, fear is there. Like there's these two things walk, you know, hand in hand on that cute little beach where we're trying to take a romantic Instagram picture, you know, so tell us. For those of us who obviously don't know enough about you and what you do and where you come from, austin Empowered is the business and is what you do and where you provide it, and I believe you're also in Austin, texas.
Cindy Austin:Yes, it is Little play on the.
Michael Devous:Little Austin squared. Take us a little down the journey of the road that got you here and share with us some of that backstory so we can get to know you a little bit better.
Cindy Austin:Well, thank you, and I noticed you too at the beginning. You're a bright light of the speaker lab and people that are, you know, busy and doing their things are the people that that organization really attracts. So I'm glad to be here. Thank you for having me. And I'd started really the lip sync. I was a I'm been a therapist, licensed professional counselor for almost 25 years now and in private practice for about 22. And when I went through my own divorce it was, I think I was, you know, 12 years married my second marriage. So here I am, a relationship expert, raised, cradle Catholic. You cannot get divorced in that world and I'd already done it once. I was really doubling down on the second one and then make sure it worked and um, Hell or hot water.
Cindy Austin:That's right and so and I had two kids with this the second person. So I was like this is really the thing that I want to focus on. You know, the thing that I? I want to make this work. And when it didn't work, it was not sustainable. I was devastated. You talk about fear, devastated. Oh, so I went through a lot of shame, guilt, blame, you know frustration, fear, anger, anguish. And then, when I finally got through the divorce and dusted myself off and kind of caught my breath, I went back out to start dating and realized it was a shit show.
Michael Devous:Out there, out there. The dating scene was a shit show.
Cindy Austin:It was a shit show dating, and so I I did the you know the normal whining, peeling, complaining, gnashing of teeth with all my friends about how bad it was. And then I went, wait a minute, I can do something about this. And so I started to pour everything I had into the program and what my knowledge, my experience, and then I researched the hell out of it and for probably a good six to seven months just read everything I could get my hands on and and then came up with this program, lip Sync, tuned in, turned on transformative dating, and really has been a wonderful way to turn my mess into a message.
Michael Devous:And I think that's the first place I heard that here it is. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm waiting for this gym.
Cindy Austin:Yes, it did. I turned my message into a message Into a message.
Michael Devous:I thought that when I heard it I was like, oh, why didn't I get that? But, like you know, when we're in the speaker lab, we all have to design our, our expert positioning statement and our why. And it's so fun to watch people discover what that is for themselves. But when they nail it, like when they land on something, you're like, oh, golden, you can tell the point, just drops.
Cindy Austin:You can just go boom, that's it, yeah, yeah so.
Michael Devous:I was very not jealous because I already have, you know, making for your friend in the fearless road, which just really sort of landed sweet for me because I was very lucky and blessed that. These things just sometimes in my life, whether it's God or the universe lining up or whatever, it just comes straight through me and out my mouth, and it's good. Sometimes it comes straight through me, out my mouth, and it's not when I was younger, that's when I got the back of the hand, but today, when it comes straight through me, typically I get some pretty cool stuff. But when I heard make your mess, your message, I thought I got to, I got to find a way to use that. And I think that's what we do at the fearless road is we?
Michael Devous:We look at our mess, we look at the messy places and the hard places. We look at those, the valleys. You know that we we take and have to travel through in order before we get to the mountain, the top of the mountain. You know the bragging and all that bold, beautiful stuff at the top of the mountain that people get to do. It's wonderful, it's awesome. Congratulations. You know we will celebrate your successes here on this road. That is what we do, but we celebrate the small steps. We celebrate, celebrate, we celebrate.
Michael Devous:Because, celebrate smell right? Yeah, sorry, I digress the. We celebrate those small steps because tackling a mountain, it is the small step every way. It's 10,000 steps, it's 20,000 steps, 40,000 steps to get to these places. And most of the time when you're reading that magazine article, you're watching that podcast and you're seeing somebody stand there and brag in front of their Learjet or with their beautiful eight cars or whatever it is that they're doing when they because they're successful. Now you didn't get to see the 10,000 steps, the arduousness and the getting them dirt and sweating and breaking your back and crying and bleeding for the business.
Michael Devous:The mess, the mess, the mess Exactly the mess that makes up the message. You don't get to see all of that, and this is where you explore a little bit further what that looks like. So, speaking of which, now that we know a little background story, but I want to know your OG story on fear what, where and when in your life did you? Do you realize that?
Michael Devous:I looked back, like I took my time. I looked back because I did some introspection and stuff and looked back at my life, and this is when I was looking at trying to figure out my why, trying to figure out my expert resisting statement was. I had to figure out what, what made me tick differently than everybody else, and the things people were saying about my life in terms of how I landed on my feet, how I pivot, how I reinvent myself, how I handle tragedy. All of those different things was coming through to me that I was doing something different than everybody else and I needed to figure out what it was and why. And that's when I figured out that my relationship with fear and my relationship with I would say now, with risk was very different than a lot of other people and, as a result, I think I made different choices and, as a result, got different results. So for you, do you have an origin story about when you were with fear in your life and how it's impacted and shaped the path you have taken?
Cindy Austin:You know it comes back to this story about when I had to go through this divorce with children. But I was again raising up Texas on a cattle ranch with one sister and five brothers oh no.
Michael Devous:How did you get a husband? I'm surprised your brothers allowed you. They could probably take him out back and beat him to death, just to make sure they made a point, you know.
Cindy Austin:Well, but it was a Catholic family and it was very much patriarchal. And so the message you know I got was your worth, as if somebody, a man, was going to like you Right.
Michael Devous:Well, yes.
Cindy Austin:And you know so I was like, oh okay, I guess that's just the way it is. And then when I started to grow, through a lot of great therapy, so the first place of facing fear was going to get therapy out of a family that was Catholic. You just pray about it, turn that shit over to God and it should work out.
Michael Devous:Have you spoken to Jesus lately?
Cindy Austin:I know exactly. So when I really actually got therapy, I was like wait, these might be my people.
Michael Devous:They're telling the truth.
Cindy Austin:They're risking, you know, being mad, you know, or being nervous, or being human.
Michael Devous:You mean you get to express your emotions and your feelings publicly in front of somebody without being shamed, guilted or punished. Concept New concept, yeah.
Cindy Austin:So therapy was a huge fear place, but I had to go do, I had to do something different, and then it was like this awesome gift. So then I thought I had it all figured out air quotes and so I picked my first partner. And I really think, when I look back, michael, I was really afraid I wasn't going to get chosen. Well, I was 31. And I was in graduate school and I was like, oh shit, I thought this just was going to work out. Maybe it does it. And so a person came along that really thought I was cool, and so I pretended or thought I don't think I pretended, I really thought it was cool. But the message I've been given was you just need to get somebody to desire you and, like you, you don't really care what you think or what you need.
Michael Devous:No, not at all.
Cindy Austin:That's not really relevant to the form.
Michael Devous:Please just be an empty shell for the love of another.
Cindy Austin:Yes, and just be the, you know, the martyr almost. And we want you to be happy, but not really.
Michael Devous:But not too happy.
Cindy Austin:Not too happy. Just make sure he's happy.
Michael Devous:Oh yes.
Cindy Austin:Yes. And so when I had that first divorce, that was a ton of fear and a ton of risk and there's not a shame in my family and they ended up deciding not to, you know, exile me. And so we all made it through that and they ended up being great through that. And then I got into the second relationship and I'd known this person before, so ding dong, hello and um, and went back to this person. But, like I tell a lot of people I work with, there are no mistakes, everything can be added to who you are, amplify who you are. And so I went in, you know, with this person and we have two amazing children. And there I went. That was the way to go. It was awesome, until it was like, oh wait. So when we went on our first date and you were just talking at me, I was excited because you were laughing your own stories and I thought it was so fun. But I didn't recognize the pro you know the preposition at me, not with me. And so that continued to show up as I continued on my path.
Cindy Austin:And then, as I continued to do my work and grow, I recognized that he and I had very different expectations for what marriage was supposed to be. And when I really had enough sense of self to stand up for it, I said we need to do something different. And he filed for divorce. And so you talk about fear, what it was doing to me, what it was going to do to my children they were eight and 10, what it was going to do to my finances. I've been working only part time taking care of kids, so I was flooded with fear and pretty much paralyzed by it, like I don't have the money he makes. He ran his own firm, you know, cpa lots of money. He knew all of that stuff. Basically, my divorce was a master's degree in finance because I knew nothing before this shit started. I was like what?
Michael Devous:Which is, you know, so typical with women? You know the whole.
Cindy Austin:Well, the patriarchal family, you know it's like yes, but the whole paradigm around.
Michael Devous:you know marriage, and why it's so fearful to get divorced and why it's such a disaster. If it happens isn't because of you, it isn't because of your partner, it's because a system was designed to make it so difficult for you to walk away, to make it so difficult for you to be happy in it, that you're stuck with all these, this residual fallout from a thing you didn't even create, that you're stuck with now and you have to deal with on top of, by the way, the emotional baggage and the emotional damage done by these choices. Right Now, you add all of that together, right? You stir it up into a beautiful soup pot of dysfunction, dependency, codependency and bullshit. Because we don't know how to have good Sorry, it's true, we don't know how to have good relationships, let alone with ourselves. That's the problem is, we're not invited to know ourselves. We're invited to change ourselves. We're invited to be something different for somebody, but we're rewarded for changing and conforming for everybody else, but never for yourself.
Cindy Austin:Up until now, as I like to say.
Michael Devous:Right, because what Austin empowered in the house and we're about to bring some change here at the. Fearless Road.
Cindy Austin:Very excited.
Michael Devous:So, okay, well then, with that in mind, you're an entrepreneur, but you're an entrepreneur in love, relationships, counseling. In that particular area, You're a female entrepreneur, a successful one, who, by the way, has not only recovered from the losses and the damage and the difficulty of the divorce and the changes that that brought forward, but as a female entrepreneur, especially in today's age and with what you know as a therapist, do you have a philosophy on entrepreneurship that you could share?
Cindy Austin:Yeah, I really a philosophy about it. I don't know if you could count. I don't know if it gets that level of you know stature.
Cindy Austin:Authority yeah exactly, but for me it was really about being able to be creative and not have to. I had been a teacher for seven years, michael, and then have been an administrator, school counselor, and if we were going to have one more, everybody agreed to that last week didn't think it done, meeting and nothing got done. I was going to come unglued. So for me, the responsibility and the creativity are both sides of the coin being able to create a program and have a practice and do live calls with people that are dating and create a community around it and play pickleball a lot To be able to do the things I wanted to do.
Cindy Austin:The entrepreneur the engine of that, gave me so much creativity and so much of my ability to go straightforward and not have to wait to catch people up. So for me it's been really wonderful. In the spontaneity creativity arena, there is the part where you know responsibility, like you were saying earlier when we were talking like who's going to get the CRM to work. Sorry, I don't like that part. There's that part too, but I have learned a ton in the process. I mean it's been a wonderful Education process.
Michael Devous:Sorry, my outlook was on. Apologize, ladies and gentlemen, please make that note. If you ever do, tech turn off your notification.
Cindy Austin:I did, I did.
Michael Devous:That thing's more authentic than the sound of a notification in the background, because you just don't have your SHIT together. But it's okay. This area of love, this juncture, if you will this, where love meets fear and where relationships meet change. I don't know what all this is, but if you can't see me, ladies and gentlemen, I'm doing a lot. I'm bringing in airplanes, but I'm doing it. Why this area Like? Why love and romance? Why this is a hard place A for a lot of people to be, let alone express themselves, because we're not encouraged to be vulnerable, which is what I think we're changing things. Brene Brown, thank you very much.
Cindy Austin:Review.
Michael Devous:Bringing change and asking for vulnerability, encouraging compassion and sharing. Is there something in this particular arena that A it excites you, but B that you see from your perspective that's different than the rest of us might not be catching onto?
Cindy Austin:You know that's a great question.
Cindy Austin:When I sit, I had the privilege of sitting with couples at various stages of up, success, stress or duress, and so I've watched for years and you know you can come down to some basics, that people miss skills, that they did not get along the way.
Cindy Austin:And so when you go into the dating world which I was stressed back into and you recognize that I've done this wrong twice, I've been two partners you really thought I knew what I was doing and I was very conscious and present all that and I realized no, not. And so dropping the water level on our consciousness is what this program is designed to do and picture like the tip of the iceberg and that's really where we think you know, that's all we need. But when we drop the water level and we get to our stories, our unconscious traumas and things that have happened to us that we just walked away and exiled or compartmentalized with a headtup or where that we actually could find the lid to and the sits, keep it over there, you know, when you drop that water level and you begin to really look at what those unconscious beliefs, thoughts, fears are then you can begin to do something about them.
Cindy Austin:And then that's the beautiful thing about what I think the Fearless River does is it talks about. It highlights the space of choice I have a choice here. Our recognized fear is happening Is like you said, we got to have it. It's quite the motivate.
Michael Devous:Janby? Oh, absolutely. Whether you think it's motivating you or not, it's 100% motivating you. Now, if you're being motivated by fear in a direction to run away, that's one way. If you're being motivated by the fear in a direction to run, towards something totally different. But you need to be aware that that's what's happening. And if you're not aware, this is what happened to me last year when I was going through this and I realized I had been asleep at the wheel of my life. I had been accidentally stumbling into my success because I had already adopted and brought on board several habits of adapting to change, because my life was chaos when I was growing up and there was a lot of things that were going on. So adapting to change was a gift I learned to do very quickly, proved to be the one thing that I thought oh no, I'm not gonna let this define me. I'm not gonna let that define me. I'm not gonna let that define me. The act of not letting it define me defined me.
Cindy Austin:So guess what?
Michael Devous:53 years later. You were defined by those things. You were defined by that fear. You were shaped by the influence that it had on the choices you made throughout your life. Now, some of those choices were great and I did a good job with them. Some of them were not very good and my family knows about those. But I think when we're out here and we're realizing that, like you said, choice is a huge part of it. If we can please remember that in every moment of every day of your life, you have the option to choose immediately in that moment who and what you wanna be when you show up there, right, and it's just the next second in front of you, just the next choice, no, just the next step. And if you can think about who you wanna be when you step with integrity into that space, then I think that can be a big game changer for a lot of us.
Cindy Austin:The important piece that I have found, though, is you can notice that you're having a fearful response, which takes in a lot of what I call noticing what you're noticing. It's a huge piece, but what you're speaking to I just love, because I know enough about you now to know that you have figured this piece out.
Cindy Austin:Is that, once you recognize the fear, it's like hold up, how fear, how you dealing with what you got for me, instead of letting it propel you into something that it always does. You actually have befriended fear and said, hey, what's up fear? And then I'm gonna pitch in the backseat, though you cannot take the wheel. You know you get to come, but you're not in charge of what I'm doing next and I call that for me the sacred pause.
Michael Devous:Sacred pause.
Cindy Austin:You're really being really able to notice what From having a reaction. But, like you said so well earlier, I didn't even know to pay attention to myself. So I guess I was told what do y'all need? Okay, what do y'all need, you know? And um, does small big enough? Are you happy with that? Okay, you know, did I cheer loud enough at the football game that y'all are watching? So I guess I need to like football, which I actually turned out I did, but it wasn't really asked. It was asked and so I didn't know. So for me, the practice really has been of teaching people and helping people to be authentically engaged with another person. You got to have some authenticity going on inside your center of life, live there.
Michael Devous:One of the things I listen to motivation, fearless motivation, which is a you can get it on Spotify, amazon, whatever you download it on your app on music. But these, this guy puts all this music, this really inspirational background music, with these live speech, with these speeches that these people give and Tom bill you, I believe, is the gentleman that did this one in particular, but was talking about both authenticity and integrity, and he mentions in this beautiful speech you cannot learn, you cannot love outside of yourself, you cannot have that. What you want outside of yourself, that you want to love, bring to you or whatever If you don't a love yourself first, if there's not worth in your life, and mean that. And what he meant. What he says is, when we chase goals, when we chase dreams, when we chase things we think of that we think have value. The act that we begin on that journey of, of, of accomplishing, doing, being having something new and better than what we currently are right now for ourselves, is an act of expressing it self love and self worth.
Michael Devous:I love that when we don't follow through, in the background, behind the scenes, when no one's looking, if you're failing yourself, you're reminding yourself you're not worthy. You do that Every time. Every time you say, oh it's gonna hit, snooze, I'm not gonna get up. Oh, I don't really want to chase that today. Oh, I don't feel like doing x? Y on the day.
Michael Devous:Every time you compromise your own integrity by not following through with the promises you've made to yourself, you are chipping away at your own value. So when it comes time to step out in the world, when it comes time to offer yourself to other people, when it comes time to be for others something greater than what they need, if you want to step into it, you're not prepared, you don't have what it takes. You cannot be successful because you don't love yourself and you've proven you don't have the integrity. And I think that that was such a powerful acknowledgement of where we lie as a society, because we're not raised to love ourselves and be authentic. We're raised to help, love others and show them who they are by what we give of ourselves, by what we give away of ourselves. I shouldn't say that's a little different.
Cindy Austin:Yeah.
Michael Devous:By what we take away from ourselves to give to others. So many golden goose out there are just dying because they're being raped for their eggs. You know what I mean. They're not being appreciated, they're not filling their cut back up and they're not taking care of themselves and living a life of integrity and authenticity. So, soapbox moment. I apologize, langeoma, I get on this.
Cindy Austin:I think it's a good point and it makes me you know the reason why I think, like when you said fear, when you talk about authenticity and integrity, I think the word we're looking for. I'm going to use it in a small formula that I use. It's like if you really tell the truth that's the first part of the formula and about what you're, where you want to eat dinner, how you like your coffee, I mean it doesn't have to be a big truth, but it could be, but it doesn't have to be. If you tell the truth and somebody really sees and knows you, there's fear. You talk about fear of, okay, so what happens next? Here's our formula Tell the truth and people really are going to see and know you.
Cindy Austin:In that next minute they're either going to accept you or reject you.
Michael Devous:And that's the thing, okay. So this brings me back to a couple of things. My brain is flashing back to when I was 14 years of age, and I don't know if some of the audience may know this, but that was one of my first aha moments where I was confronted myself in front of the mirror after a very bad bully beating. I had bullies was beating me every week, it was just a normal thing, but this particular day was a very difficult one. I was dealing with coming out of the closet. I was dealing with non-sexuality. It was 14 years old in 1984 in Texas, and I could not live with myself lying to people. I could not grasp.
Cindy Austin:That's it.
Michael Devous:But if you're a teen, pretending to be something for you and this moment that I had, where I could see 20, 20, 30, 40 years of trying to pretend to be something different in order to make you happy and like me, I wanted to throw up and die. I was like absolutely not like. If you can't like me, f off. Like I don't need this I'm. You know there's so many other people out in this world who may or may not like who I am, but I will be damned if I'm going to chase this down and die on this hill to get you to approve of me and our teens. Like no, there's my brain. Just saw it all in one flash.
Cindy Austin:That's one of those special moments where I think, you get a download from God, the universe.
Michael Devous:Yeah, like a temporary, you know, and I just saw right through, you know, to the other side and I was like nope, we're not doing this. And I feel like that's what a lot of people don't really. They don't have that choice or they're not met with that opportunity. I apologize for ringing in the bathroom. They don't have that opportunity where they get to see the alternate version of this. Meaning, if you continue down this path, compromising yourself for others, and you continue to pretend to be something else for others, whether it's to get them to like you go on a date job interview, whatever it is- it is not a sustainable practice.
Michael Devous:First of all, because you can't. You can't keep up with your own lies. And two, it isn't healthy because what you're doing is you're lying to the world about who you are and when you start that process, you're planting poisoned seeds into the bad soil. Nobody else is doing that. That may be asking you to. You may be thinking that they want you to.
Cindy Austin:Well, and I think that's what we're saying earlier, you might not be conscious. I mean it could be just the milieu you were raised in the paradigm we're given.
Michael Devous:Please everybody. You know be a people pleaser and I thought that's my success space. You know I'm a people pleaser, I can make people happy.
Cindy Austin:Won't rock the boat. It's so easy to get along with, or isn't she easy? It's like, well, if I tell the truth and you really see and know me, and then you either accept or reject me, I if. But if you accept me and I haven't told the truth, then the ultimate result is love and I never feel loved, even though I say, oh, we love each other, yeah, we love each other, it's so great. But I never felt loved because I know I didn't tell the truth, yeah.
Michael Devous:I didn't give you myself. I gave you a fake version of me. So when you say you love me, every time you say you love me is a dig at my heart, because you don't know the real me, because I didn't let you see it, that's one of my pet peeves.
Cindy Austin:That's one of my pet peeves and helping people with dating is is looking at their profiles. I'm like, no, this is not a.
Cindy Austin:I saw your little, your little, your little video on that checklist ways to improve your profile, photograph and dot, and I was like ooh, tips and tricks, you know like yeah, well, because when you, because people are putting their, they don't put their full body, they feel that they're overweight or they're not the best weight, and then I'm like, okay, so do we want somebody to like the real you? Cause sometimes that's the real you and it's, but really trying to do that out there until you've done it in here. Is it just rearranging furniture on the Titanic? It's going down.
Michael Devous:Yes, just rearranging furniture on the Titanic. You got two big ones today. Ladies and gentlemen, you got to make your mess your message and stop trying to adjust the furniture on the Titanic, cause it's going down anyway, going down going down, grab onto a piece of driftwood. Do you enjoy the music? Baby Cause we're all like. I hope you like a concerto. So that's all I know, that's it.
Cindy Austin:That's it Cause we're going under. It's cold, we are, that is so funny.
Michael Devous:That's a brilliant stuff.
Cindy Austin:The biggest fear that comes up is is that we're designed to be attached, I mean, just as a mammal. I don't care who you are.
Cindy Austin:We are designed to be attached, to connect, and we come in with that and then we end up coping with the best way we know how we end up with different attachment styles and then. But all of us want to be loved. Yes, we want to be seen, we want to be known, we want to be loved for who we are and we're not going to be loved by everybody, and that was a revelation to me. I was like what? So I remember when I first started off as a therapist and I tried to conform to whatever the client needed, which we were taught in graduate school and I have left that, by the way, graduate school, sorry. And so I'm going to be who I really am in this session and if we're not going to be a fit, there are a thousand other therapists within 200 yards from here. I'm an Austin, you can find somebody that would be a better fit.
Cindy Austin:But I was so depleted and exhausted and and ultimately resentful that I got. Can I say fuck with this client? Can I say Jesus with this client? Can I? How can you know? And it was like, ah, just be me and um, and honoring the client's pace, honoring their personality, for sure, but just showing up authentically. My practice doubled Wow.
Michael Devous:And I could try.
Cindy Austin:I could try and to be what everybody wanted me to be, and it was quite refreshing.
Michael Devous:Yes, it is refreshing. We see you, I see you. I think it's very refreshing. I think that's what resonated with me specifically was how, how you present that authenticity in a way that is I don't want to say it's unapologetic, because you don't have to apologize at all, but it's.
Michael Devous:It's sort of like this this is where I'm coming from and this is the industry that I'm in, but I'm going to bring this version of me to the table, um, because that's what I can do, that's the best that I can do, because bringing the best me is my job. Like that's what I have to do is bring the best me. I can't bring the best to you and I can't bring the best to you and I can't bring the best. I can bring the best me. And so that is my biggest purpose is to make sure that when we show up for the world and life and everything else, the best means there to receive whatever gifts and opportunities are coming Right. And I think that's part of sort of what we were saying on this journey too, is we weren't there, in present and aware and available the best version of ourselves. Because so we weren't receiving those opportunities, we weren't seeing them, we weren't hearing them, we weren't recognizing them.
Cindy Austin:Because we didn't know.
Michael Devous:No, we didn't know. And then when you wake up, when your ears do pop open right and you hit that level, you're like oh, oh, oh, oh, my gosh, oh my gosh. And then you know by the time you're, you know 50, you realize, well, there's not enough time, there's not a lot of time left to to to fix and change everything. But I better get it cleaned up now because I don't want to waste the rest of the time I have here playing in that sandbox, playing the that game with those people like done not going to do it.
Cindy Austin:So I started dating and I dated for really five years. Count them right, Count them one.
Michael Devous:I can see that's five Yep.
Cindy Austin:Yeah, five long years, and I took breaks, I had to reboot and reset and everything and and really kept adding each experience to to me. You know something for me to learn from. But the fear that kept creeping up was like, well, again, the fear that I think initiated my reason for marrying at 31. First I thought I was running out of time, so I just did it. I got desperate. I was like, oh, I want to have children or want to have a family, what's going to help? I gotta do this now? And and really thought that I was happy. It was really not a conscious part that I didn't. And so, really, the dating for five years, fear was a constant companion of you, might, you might, never this, might, you can't make the person come in. It was like I can, I can, I was like you, you, you can't. And so I called it like the shopping, the Amazon shopping ring of like I want this and a partner, I want this and a partner, I want this and a partner. And then I'd thank Johnny Cash for the ring of fire that just burns all that away over time and I got finally to the core of peace, and and fear is still there. I mean fear still comes because I'm alive and breathing. But in that space it was.
Cindy Austin:I really imagined that I woke up one morning and that I had left a like a magically a pad by my bed, and then the morning an angel had come down and she or he had written in it you will never couple again. And I went okay. So how would I be living my life If my greatest fear came true? I was like, oh well, it wouldn't be a misdifferent. I mean I quit dating. I mean I wouldn't worry about it. I'd just be doing the things I was doing. I'd be investing in the volunteer opportunities I could, I'd be playing pickleball, I'd be hanging out with my friends, I'd be traveling, I would be going to visit the ranch, I would be doing the things that that life is.
Cindy Austin:And then I had a thought okay, so if I woke up the next morning and the angel had written a note that said you will be coupled in the next nine months, you'll find your forever person, how would you be living? And when I tell people Michael, is it shouldn't be any different? None, and when I really faced the fear which I call the fruit roll up, a fear, you know, you unpack a fruit roll up. You have to keep pulling it all the way out. It's like what is the fear? And that was really my fear I would never couple, I would never have my plus one. I would. I can't hear you.
Michael Devous:Oh, I muted myself when I blew my nose. I apologize. I think that's one of my biggest fears is cause I haven't dated in 15 years. I mean, I haven't been with anybody. And you know there's a whole lot. I'm sure there's a whole lot of reasons and things that go into that. You know that we could dive down into. But it's just weird how my life has just turned into this sort of low wolf scenario.
Michael Devous:And you know, when I saw, when I saw you on this, on the, on the program, and I saw what you did and everything, I had two reactions. One was oh my God, I love what she does. Oh my God, I hope she doesn't know that I'm single and I can't. I don't know if I'll ever find anybody. Like I can't be a project right now because I don't want to be the focus, so like it was one of those things that was like uh, we better if we go down that road, I'm going to be terrified because I don't know, I don't know how. I haven't been in a relationship I mean been in relationships and things like that but I haven't been in a romantic and a coupled relationship in 20 years and I don't know if I know how I keep thinking. You know it's like what my stepfather always says to me you can't practice being in a relationship without being in a relationship, like you've got to try and you have to practice.
Michael Devous:Yeah, and then I'm like what do you do? Do you just get in relationships just to practice being in relationships? What do you tell the other person? I'm not really in it for the long term, I'm just practicing with you because I have no idea if this is going to work out. So just want you to know up front, like how do you, how do you have that and this is like, I'm just like Evian, please.
Michael Devous:Right. So I thought I just you know, it's always been in the back of my brain. So for me this, this show, is my outreach. For me this is sort of like, you know, getting to connect with humans and people and really make an impact. But if I could do all of that, do what I do right, I'm going to change who I am and what I'm doing. You know, and have someone on this journey with me as my witness for what I'm doing, I think that would be amazing too. I think they'd be really cool. I think everybody kind of is seeking, to a degree, you know, is that witness for their lives?
Cindy Austin:That's a great way to say it that that person that they can choose to continue to use as a place to heal and grow and transform and enrich.
Michael Devous:Well, speaking of, you know, transforming the lip sync dating program which everybody can find on Austin, empowered links will be below Lipsydatingcom too.
Cindy Austin:Yeah, it's on site too.
Michael Devous:Lip sync. What does that mean? Lip sync? What is the term?
Cindy Austin:You know it's weird. I've been asked that before and what I have found is I had it called deliberate dating and then when I went to go get it trademarked the USTPO often, you know they said you have to do something more original. So we tossed around a couple of things and I'm the child of the, you know I graduated high school in 1985. I'm 56. So it was like Millie Vanilly with lip syncing was all fake.
Michael Devous:But you remember when you were small.
Cindy Austin:Now it was like lip syncing was true, yes, but if it's not a word that I love because, like Austin, my last name and then Austin, the city I like, kind of like that the plan words, a double entendre of lip sync, if you can really seek yourself up with who you authentically are and what you want for your life.
Michael Devous:And what you're saying.
Cindy Austin:With your lips and who and how it expresses the integrity that you mentioned earlier. If that can really come through, if you can sync that up, you can resonate. Get on that frequency, Half the battle is done, because then you start to attract people at that same resonance, at that same frequency. And so then and everybody loves to sync their lips when they consider romance they get to kiss, and so it's got three meanings in essence, and so I went with it and then the tune then turned on. Transformative dating is. A lot of times people look at dating as a as the. You know, this is the car that's going to take us to the new location and the location is the best part of our trip. And really this program is teaching that dating in itself is part of the transformation and healing process and it can be fun and it can be enriching.
Cindy Austin:from somebody who did it for five years that really, really did not think it was fun at the beginning, it can be fun and so really looking at it from a new perspective, I mean it changes everything. Like you were talking earlier.
Michael Devous:Well, perspective is God. You know, there's so many truths, there's so many things that I learn and have been learning along this journey by asking the questions. You know, I'm so blessed and lucky that I get to be the person who gets to sit in a seat and talk about these, these subject matters. When it happened to me and I started looking and examining it, I didn't have all the answers. I still don't, but what I wanted to know was the difference. That's the key.
Michael Devous:I wanted to know from others what is your journey with fear? What is your journey with vulnerability? What is your journey with these things? How is it impacting your lives and what difference is it making in the way that we live and choose to live? And how, if we begin a dialogue with with ourselves about this, can we change the world and change the way we see ourselves in it? And by doing so shifting that perspective, we shift our frequency, just like you said. And by shifting our frequency we become more in line and alignment and in tune with harmony the parts of the world to bring happiness and joy and and and an abundance right, um, I think that frequency is an important thing. I don't know that a lot of people talk about it. I think it's sort of a you could be mythical, it can be mystical, it can be maybe spiritual, but not necessarily religious. On that line, I don't know if you're familiar with the celestine prophecy.
Cindy Austin:I love that book.
Michael Devous:Oh, talk about frequency, um, finding your, your way to aligning yourself with the frequency of the world and the planet. Um, because, as you know, because I, I, I, I, all people know this statement and this saying you know, we are all humans being, not humans doing, we are spiritual beings having a human experience.
Cindy Austin:Yep.
Michael Devous:And that, if you can remember this, maybe something you're out there right now in your car is driving to you to work, or you're coming home from work or whatever, and you've got a frustrating and difficult and challenging day. Remember, you're a spiritual being having a human experience. You're, you're fitting in to a physical shape and form. Your resonance, your frequency is being reduced and shrunk down, flow down enough to inhabit the physical form. I know it's maybe wild and out there, but it's. You have to slow down that, that that vibration, long enough to inhabit a physical form.
Michael Devous:For this temporary years, 50, 60, 70, 80 years before you get released and go back out into the frequency of the world, of the universe and in doing so, while you're down here, yeah, it's going to be hard. There's going to be times when you don't feel like you're resonating with things around you, you don't feel in balance or in harmony. By the way, that can be be in part because your perspective is off. Yes, so you know, if we can help with this show and other shows and talk about this stuff, it could help you clear the cobwebs, get that filter out of the way and embrace an opportunity where learning and seeing something from a different perspective and point of view might just give you that space you need to A love yourself a little bit more, have a little bit more compassion for yourself and maybe, maybe, resonate with somebody else and get some late lip-sicking on, you know.
Cindy Austin:That's it. Well, when you say that that's it, because that was the part that tuned in, you have to tune into yourself first. Turned on Doesn't mean sexually turned on. It can mean it's another double entendre there. But turned on like animated with your truth.
Michael Devous:Yeah.
Cindy Austin:Like alive with your purpose alive with and awakened, yes, and really. What your preferences are, what your interests are, what your values are, what your desires are, all of that you know to have that turned on in you, and then it's transformative.
Michael Devous:Well, and then I think you know, the turned on. Sorry to interrupt the turned on. Part two, by the way, you know, can also relate to the things you've turned off in your life because you thought that you didn't need them, you thought someone wouldn't like them.
Cindy Austin:We've shut down pieces of ourselves.
Michael Devous:It's time to turn those pieces back on, baby. It's time to go in there and turn those lights back on, open those curtains and let that light shine in to the parts of you that you might have been hiding and be transformative, because you can't do it without it.
Cindy Austin:Well, when you think about your 14 year old experience, where you had, you know, bully, you know daily basis. If not, you know weekly daily I mean that's just brutal, and we didn't have any conversation about what it was going on back then and for you to stand up at 14.
Michael Devous:And no recourse.
Cindy Austin:Yeah, and no support. So that's why I live sync. We have the complimentary call live every Monday night so that people can come in and have a shared experience of like oh my God, I've never revealed who I really am on a profile. I know how to be flirty and cool, but I don't know how to say anything real. I don't know how to do it.
Michael Devous:Yeah.
Cindy Austin:What do you do when you finally get somebody like you catch a fish and they're taught you know like, ah, and so there's a place to really be real and be accepted and therefore loved, where you get to practice that because you know you go out on a date and you're, you're by yourself with another human being and then you like what if they don't like me? And if there's not a good support system in your life or a good group of friends or family, it's hard to go out and do that Sure, and come back home and be by yourself. You talk about fear. It's like, well, there really is something wrong with me.
Michael Devous:Well, especially, yeah, If we're talking about two things. One, I love that you brought that up, because my next question to you was creating your ideal partner, which you mentioned on both the website and stuff, which is what you help people do. It can create a lot of fear in people, but I also think it would just occurred to me that you were talking about going out on date and sort of it. What if they don't like me? What if they would ever? It occurred to me that that is the one social situation we put ourselves in by definition, where the goal coming out of it is to ensure that someone likes me.
Cindy Austin:Yes.
Michael Devous:Instead of the goal being I better show up with my most authentic self and bring the best me to the table. Our focus is on a different outcome, and that is to get them to like me, to ensure that they're going to like me. So what we begin to do is we begin to make assumptions about areas that we might need to edit out and truncate or whatever, out of fear of rejection, out of fear of not being liked, out of fear of things not going right. Right, not the practice of dating, which is just go and be you and if it don't go, well, that's fine, date another and practice again until you get comfortable in expressing yourself and you're not so nervous. Right, right, we don't get.
Michael Devous:There's no practice dating space school scenario you go through, you throw that in the world and your parents like go on a date. Like who teaches you this stuff? You didn't watch your parents day, god knows, you didn't want to. They certainly don't want to know anything about it. You know what I'm saying? We had this weird, you know, ick and gross, or parents, you know, and some of our parents were great and they were amazing lovers and they had incredible communication and we as kids don't also don't see that. So it's not taught in high school. It certainly isn't taught in schools today, god knows.
Cindy Austin:Well, they've got taught in movies and TV and books.
Michael Devous:No, no, that's romanticizing Hollywood and fairy tales.
Cindy Austin:I mean it's the. There's no place really to go get it.
Michael Devous:Very rare.
Cindy Austin:I really felt that there was a. It was a need that we need to evolve how we date, and so dating evolution instead of evolution, and evolution is really what I'm about. And think about this. Look at how much we know about food, diet and eating now that we did 30 years ago.
Michael Devous:And we're still the fattest, unhealthiest and most drugged up nation in the world. Thank you.
Cindy Austin:Thank you very much, and but we didn't know about GMO, we didn't know about carbs, we didn't know about sugar addictions.
Michael Devous:I mean we really you say we didn't, but the people selling it to us certainly did.
Cindy Austin:Yes, but so that's what I'm saying.
Michael Devous:Hollywood and fairy tales are selling us that version of dating, and they're selling us an imaginary version of ourselves in a world that doesn't exist at a time. That isn't real, it's all-.
Cindy Austin:Well, you see, these kids and people that brand themselves on Instagram and they put their cap on and they take their picture and they go sporty self and I'm like you've never played a sport in your life, you just branded yourself as a way for people to have an image of you. So, therefore, they didn't tell the truth. They can't be seen and known there, will be accepted, but they'll never feel loved because they didn't tell the truth, and so it's really creating a space, as you do the ideal partner blueprint, of what truly People are like. I don't think I can do an ideal partner blueprint.
Michael Devous:It seems too scary and they're scary is it because Wait, why would you be scared to write down your preferences for the best person? Hello, I don't want to manifest perfect. I don't want to mess that up.
Cindy Austin:I might put something wrong Like hello Well there is that too, and I do see that. But there's another level of it. It was like well, I'm not perfect, I need to allow the other person to be important.
Michael Devous:Because the act of writing down what I would expect and want from my partner suggests that if I'm fallible, I don't have the right to ask this.
Cindy Austin:Thank you, thank you that was well said, that's tweetable, that's it Right there, that's it Hashtag.
Michael Devous:Get that ladies, put that caption up. That's going out to social media.
Cindy Austin:That is really it. A lot of people don't believe that if they do that, that they deserve to do that. So they, and they feel that they would be too arrogant to ask for their ideal partner. I said no, no, no, you can't start with your ideal partner. There is no perfect person. You're not perfect, I'm not perfect. That's not even on the menu. But if you can't really get clear about it and people really truly Michael, they just get stymied at that point. So I created a tool for people to use so that they can figure out a way to do it differently, and the tool is nobody has a problem with this and I go into detail in the program, but I want you to make a list of all the things you never want to think, feel or experience in relationship. Again, if you go like, how much paper and time do I?
Michael Devous:have. You have right, because we've all been through it. I was going to ask this next question, which actually was teasing into it, was what's the most common for you to see around dating in your thing? And I wonder if that's it that the very act of bringing my authentic self to this situation, which feels impossible to do because I've never actually known who that is and I don't know how to do it coupled with the idea that I now need to write down and ask from you, the universe or whatever, what it is I want, and a perfect partner, when I can't even tell you who I am, I can't even be honest with myself, let alone bring it to you. And now I'm going to tell you what I want from you is an act of lies. You're literally, you can't tell anyone what you want because you, you don't even know yourself to make that demand, to make that ass.
Cindy Austin:That's it, that's all I'm saying. Is like to really sess that out, and a lot of us know how we don't like to be treated. But we but again, if we were taught to be, you know, people pleasers, diminish ourselves, deny our needs and really don't talk about Well, no conflict, Any of us can sit there and write down yeah, I don't like to be kicked by my owner.
Michael Devous:Stepped on is fine because you know that doesn't hurt as bad. You know like, but that's all we know. When all you know is being kicked and bullied and all you know is the bad parts, and that's what you, that's what you use to set your baseline for what your expectations are. You might actually allow someone to walk on you. You might allow somebody to, like, wipe their feet on you and not respect you. You might allow these things because you don't realize A that you have the right to ask for something better. B you don't love yourself and know that enough to know that's your job, that's your responsibility. To love yourself. That's your role here on this planet. When God sent you down here is to be the best version of you you can possibly be, and that includes loving yourself.
Cindy Austin:Yes, and, and, and that. I think what we you know we miss along the way is we desire so much to belong and to be attached, connected, that the tribal, primitive part of our brain says well, amend yourself so that they'll keep, they won't kick you out. I mean, it's very primitive.
Michael Devous:Well, that's fitting in, not belonging. Not fitting in is when you edit the pieces of yourself to get into something. Belonging is when you have to do nothing and they love you anyway.
Cindy Austin:That's thank you. Another treatable, that's it. Right, mark those? That's the moment, those are the moments, because that's the difference. And so when you don't know that the waterline has not been dropped on your consciousness and you're just going along the best way, you know how everybody else, at 31, is getting married, I guess I need to do something. Oh, what's wrong with me? What's wrong with me? Fear? There's the fear. What's wrong with me? What do I need to do? To mend myself, like you said, edit myself so that somebody else would be okay with me. And then we never really feel loved, we just settle, and then nobody wants to be the settler and no one wants to be settled.
Michael Devous:No one wants to find out. You settled. You're like, oh really, you settled for me and I didn't know, I did that in my first marriage.
Cindy Austin:I really was humbled. I did not know I did it. I was afraid, as I was, of not being with my peers or what my family expected of me at 31. It's like, oh, I'm in a small town I can't make. I was in, I didn't get my graduate degree.
Michael Devous:Danton, yes.
Cindy Austin:Let's do this, unt Eagles. Oh, I was.
Michael Devous:TW.
Cindy Austin:But I couldn't make people come in. I mean, we didn't have online dating, we didn't have apps. I was like well, I'm not going to find them at Target or on campus. It was a women's university, what? So I was like, where am I going to do? And so it was a panicky thing. That fear makes us make decisions that are not choices. They are reactions.
Michael Devous:Yes, this is where I was when I was exploring how it influences our lives. It is forcing us into making decisions and choices we wouldn't normally make, because we're making them out of fear. Yeah, we're making them in a from a place of fear. That's one thing I've always learned about myself. If I make a choice and a decision based from a place of fear, it's always wrong, it's always bad, it never works. No, and if you know that about yourself, I mean really truly know that about yourself, when you feel that you're coming from a place of fear and panic, which I just had, I'm sorry, I just had a fear. I'm in the studio which is out at the ranch and we're on the mountains and we're in the mountains and I have this decorative shelf with baskets and things and everything. Something crawled down a spider, massive.
Cindy Austin:A pranchelous size.
Michael Devous:I mean, it's big, that's a big, that's a big boy.
Cindy Austin:Keep your eyes on him.
Michael Devous:I'm going to keep my eyes on him because I could see him over there. I just feel like not that I'm terrified of spiders, but they creep me out. Anyway, back to the show.
Cindy Austin:It's primitive response.
Michael Devous:Exactly, it is my what is it Not my? Amyloid. My what is it? Amyloid?
Cindy Austin:outer world. My amygdala Make the love.
Michael Devous:Yeah, that's a different A word, anyway. So, yeah, these things. I think if you know that you're coming from a place of fear and you're making a decision, it's always going to be wrong. So remember that about yourself, if that's anything that you're ever coming Just speaking of. Let's move forward a little bit. Now that you've got the business you've got, you've developed this pathway, you've got lip sync, you've got clients and people that you work with, you've learned some things. What are some of the three biggest challenges you think you face currently? Knowing what you know, learning what you've learned and now moving forward.
Cindy Austin:As an entrepreneur or in lip sync or with the-.
Michael Devous:Well, any one of them, Something that stands out for you right now, I think, as an entrepreneur. I think that includes your business and encompasses that whole, what you built as a business. So it can include the lip sync part of it. Have you learned anything major from that that we should know. That will give us a little insight to like what are we doing wrong? What do we need to fix?
Cindy Austin:In the dating world.
Michael Devous:Yeah.
Cindy Austin:Oh yeah, well, for me, I think it's really about exactly what you just said earlier. It was ideal partner blueprint. You've got to. If you come up to the poker table and you only have 10 chips and I'm gonna play with you and you've got 200, who's gonna have more freedom in betting? Who's gonna take more risks? Who's gonna be more vulnerable? So the person that has the more poker chips are gonna do that, and I'm gonna be more in scarcity, and so what I've learned really is that shifting my mentality always to a choice of abundance, and so when scarcity is really there and I call it scarcity and it is a location that I really feel I go to and I just like start counting my 10 chips and I don't know what I can do, and I do it in my practice, I do it in my lip sync.
Cindy Austin:I'm like how much time do I have? There's not enough time in the day, you know. Whatever, it's a scarcity mentality and so leaving scarcity is a real thing that I've. It's a practice. I continue to practice and heading towards what I call the dance abundance, the dance of abundance. And going to that place and recognizing, okay, what if there is enough time? What if you do have enough energy? What if there is enough CRM, something that out there that knows how to do my CRM for me? You know what if you know what if that's out there? So really shifting from scarcity to abundance is a constant thing, because fear comes up.
Michael Devous:Well, renee Brown was talking about this too and she mentioned that we live in a society right now, in a culture of scarcity, that the messaging that we get, the bombardment of information and stimuli, the politics that we live in, the climate not just physical climate and weather climate, but the climate of our nations, our relationships with each other, the divergent behavior that has been presented to us over the last several years, is a culture of, and the messaging of, scarcity and fear that we sort of are stewing in, we're simmering in it daily.
Michael Devous:You know, if you don't disconnect and separate yourself from that deluge of information long enough to re-center and rebalance and that's, I think, what a lot of people are trying to do seek it in, whether it's yoga, meditation, whatever they gotta do to like, get that balance back. Remember, every time you tune in and turn on something, you're inviting in that energy from a TV, your radio, whatever it is. And this is something interesting you might, people may not know Celestine, I think, talked about this. When you talk about the frequency and stuff, they talk about frequency of plants and frequency of things in nature compared to the frequency of things that humans have developed and designed, if you put them on a scope, those little frequency scopes, you can see how angled and sharp and a lot of this frequency that we get from things is negative. It's not in balance and in harmony with our physical selves and the frequency that our physical bodies give off is actually more in tune with nature in a tree than it is with a television and a TV show.
Cindy Austin:Like how it is. I think that's cool. Yeah, I think paying attention to that is huge and noticing what frequency are you on and what? Are you in scarcity? There's a frequency. Are you in abundance? There's a frequency. And again, if you drop the water level, you have a choice.
Michael Devous:Well, I don't know that. We realize humans have an electrical impulse. We have electrical impulses through our entire body that operate and run our heart and our brain and everything else our brains firing all the time with electrical impulses. Those electrical impulses are giving off a frequency wave, they're giving off a vibration right.
Michael Devous:And if you're doing things in your life that go against your own vibration, if you're taking on things in your life that go against your vibration, you could be sick, you could get a migraine, you could be unhealthy, you could get overweight, you might not getting the nutrition that you need, you might be involved in bad relationships, making poor choices, all of those different things. Now, think about that. You're already there. You're doing that right. You're now changing and shifting your vibration to adapt and adopt these things that aren't good for you. But what does that do to the world outside? It draws to you other things that are of that like and similar vibration, which means you are now drawing scarcity, you're now drawing fear, You're now bringing more of it to you, because that's what your vibration's giving off, right?
Cindy Austin:Yep to attract yeah exactly.
Michael Devous:So I don't mean to get too mystical and sort of weird about it, but I think it's a real thing that I don't think we think about when we're in that place of scarcity. We are now giving off.
Cindy Austin:Emitting a frequency. You are emitting a frequency, there's a way. So you ask one of my challenges that I would say.
Cindy Austin:I think one of my biggest challenges right now is and this is a belief system that I could check in myself, so but there seems to be, and I'm doing it right now we are creating a podcast, so but the amount of energy required to continually put a voice out there, trying to market or share of, trying to serve, trying to get my message out there, can absolutely exhaust me, whether it's posting, whether it's responding, liking, following, creating content and then putting the content out there and then responding to the content. It's like to me that continues to be a big challenge and it flies in the face of the authentic part, because it feels like look at me, look at me, hey, hey, look at me, and I know that there's a lot of people doing really good things out there that aren't having that, that kind of narcissistic or self-centered or look at me only purpose, but there's so many that are that putting my voice out there, competing with that, has been a challenge for me. It feels hard.
Michael Devous:It feels disingenuous.
Cindy Austin:That's it, yeah.
Michael Devous:Yeah I'm it doesn't have to be, no, no, no, and I'm with you. I you know this part. I love getting on the call. Doing the interviews like this is my zone. I am happiest and feel very balanced and very relaxed and very cool and very whatever like in this space doing this. Then we get off of this and it's now post-production time and I gotta take these and edit it, clip and dot and do the social media posts and this, all those different businessy things.
Cindy Austin:Yep.
Michael Devous:Around the dream. Like you know, the dream part is fun, but then you gotta do all the other stuff you know around it. And while I'm good at it and I understand it and I've been doing it for many years and I have that experience, it still is. It feels a little slightly disingenuous, right you? Do feel like I feel like I should be paying someone to do that part so that I'm free to actually enjoy doing it.
Cindy Austin:This part where you feel most resonance, where, you feel most alive. But I think, as an entrepreneur and you well know, I mean that's part of the braiding together, of all the parts, and so we'll bring in perspective again it's just how I continue to look at it. You know, I have to decide to look at it as a gift and a privilege that I get to do it. But that is a kind of a wha-wha-wha.
Michael Devous:It's kind of a but Well, and then you know we, as entrepreneurs, we're jacking jails of all trades. You know what I mean. We bring to the table a number of skill sets and experiences, that we culminate our mess into a message and then we try to deliver it to the world. In order to do so, as an entrepreneur, you have to be an innovator, you have to be a creator, you have to operate from a place. A certain amount of vulnerability is required in order to put yourself out there. Your ideas, your thoughts, your creativity, your services, your goods. You're putting it out there at risk that it will be rejected. In fact, this is one of the biggest stepping you know to step out into the world with what you think you know and what you think you wanna give people and then risk them saying I don't want it, it is the that's rejection 100%.
Michael Devous:Absolutely, and I think entrepreneurs deal with this on a daily basis with the understanding and the knowledge that you're going to be turned down, you will be rejected, but I think what we understand about that that's different than other people. We already know this and we're comfortable with it. We know we're gonna fall, we know we're gonna fail, we know we're gonna get bruised and we're gonna get hurt. We know this is not easy, but there's a teeny, tiny, little part of us. It's still that little boy and that little girl on the playground dreaming about being a superhero, dreaming about being a cop, dreaming about being in a space program. Because we're dreamers, we're huge. We cannot stop the dream, we can't stop the creativity. It's just part of who we are.
Michael Devous:And when you try to balance those two things where we've got the chaos and the drama on this side, it's like. It's difficult, it's challenging. You can fail, people will reject you. All the big what if? Scenarios and fears that might come in with the dreamer and the creator who want to do more in this world. We live in this tension space in the middle, like we live in this little zone of tension of the tug of war between you might not, you might what goes wrong, but what if it doesn't Like? This is where we are, and having resources and people like you to help us especially navigate the tension area between romance and our lips as we try to get them in sync with our hearts I think that could be very challenging, but I'm very glad that we have you as a resource, that people can have you as a resource. I think that's really incredible, the work that you're doing.
Cindy Austin:Thank you so much.
Michael Devous:You're very welcome. So, speaking of those things, three things, maybe two things, so that you would love the audience to take away and remember, if you have a little piece of advice that they could get this afternoon, that it's free right now. Ladies and gentlemen, if you are hearing this, not gonna be that way, but you can get this little piece of advice right now because you tuned in. So do you have something?
Cindy Austin:I think, if I could just imbue anybody listening that's looking at dating, is that if you look at dating as a process to help you heal and transform your thoughts, your consciousness, your reactions to things, your mental story about scarcity or abundance, if you use it as a process to transform yourself, enrich yourself and heal yourself, it's a win.
Cindy Austin:You're out there connecting people, you're not missing anything and, like you said, we have few years here, and so let's go ahead and use our time here to really grow, develop, heal, transform, and it has some fun while we're doing it. It's like there's this the thing I wish somebody had told me is what I my dad never. He tried to tell me how to date, but again he told me make sure the guy has fun, so you know. So I would say whether it's a you know, a gay relationship or a straight relationship or whatever, pay attention to how you feel in this other person's presence, and you've mentioned that before. It's like we were taught to go to the interview and put your best foot forward, which implies there's a clubfoot we're dragging behind this, and so don't look at that one though.
Michael Devous:Which implies nobody wants to see the other foot.
Cindy Austin:Yes, it's deformed, it's gross, it's gotten a chronic flash and might stink, and so what we wanna do is we want to bring all of ourselves and really be okay with the scum part of ourselves and the beautiful flower part of ourselves. If you can embrace those together and hold that space like set your feet if you're into sports, really set your feet and just hold both of those as you go forward, I think that you're gonna be vibrating in a frequency that's gone to attract more people doing the very same thing.
Michael Devous:I love that because it when you realize that, by stepping fully into that space where you're now acting A in your best interest, you're not self-centered, you're self-interested and you're presenting an authentic version of yourself vulnerable, available, but also at risk. I don't know enough about myself to know whether or not I'm gonna be good at this, and I need to practice with you, and I'm inviting you to practice with me. You are, then changing the frequency of the situation and thereby attracting to you now individuals that will and hopefully will resonate with that version of you.
Cindy Austin:Yes, one of the modules, the last one, and they don't have to be taken in order, but they are designed to go in order. But it talks about recognize and rewrite the patterns that no longer serve you. And so when you go out on a date, or you're getting ready for a date, or you're looking at putting a profile up, or what is your story? What? Is the pattern, what's the narrative? What are?
Michael Devous:you saying to yourself I have talked about this, it's in my speech, it's in my work, it's in my blogs. What story are you telling yourself? Because that's one thing humans do Other than dream and other than you know, wanna be partnered and wanna have connection in this world. We tell ourselves stories, we love stories, and if you are telling yourself a narrative that is not in alignment with who you are, it's pretty hard to live a good life. I would think it's gonna be pretty difficult and challenging.
Cindy Austin:It is. And then something that we said earlier that I'm gonna come back to is that we have these thoughts. They're automatic. Fear is automatic, which we talked about. It shows up, it's there, but then if you have that sacred pause, that space right after it, to say up until now I was a bad dator, up until now I got really nervous and sweated a lot. Up until now I picked people that were addicts, or I picked people that were assholes.
Cindy Austin:Up until now I didn't speak up and reveal who I was Up until now, and those three words, I think, are neurolinguistically powerful, like the trains go in this way with that narrative and then up until now it just changes course immediately and it opens up possibility, and it opens up hope, and it opens up.
Michael Devous:It opens up neuroplasticity. It means your brain can now see opportunities or at least allow for the suggestion of a different path, of new opportunities and new ways to move forward. Because you're giving yourself permission in the statement of up until now A I've learned all that stuff, I got it behind me, it's at my back, I can use it in any of those tools. And B by saying up until now you're putting, you're placing a marker between then and what comes next. And you're suggesting that in the what?
Michael Devous:comes next area. After this new, after this better, after this improved.
Cindy Austin:Maybe, 10%.
Michael Devous:you know, maybe Miller Lite, not Miller Regular.
Cindy Austin:Yes, you know, one thing that I think that I would love for everybody to know is we were raised in the school system, most of us in the public school systems, or really in America, where we're trying to win, who has the answer? And you raise your hand first.
Cindy Austin:It's me, I have it, and so we weren't really taught the growth mentality, we were taught the fixed mentality. You either have the answer and you're good and you get the A or the gold star, or you're blessed then, and so, going into dating as a learner with the growth mentality, with, like we were saying earlier, you don't have to be finding your next and last partner ever. It's a lot of pressure. I saw much pressure, so going into it with a close mentality.
Michael Devous:Without, I'm gonna learn something here I can learn something about myself or learn something about somebody else today. Yeah, exactly.
Cindy Austin:So that's really what I would leave people with too, and that's what I really want. It takes a lot of the pressure off. It creates a space for you to be more authentic, because you're coming at it from a place of I'm learning something about myself and about you, and this activity or this restaurant or this space that we're gonna be in, you're like, oh, I can do that. I don't have to be on O the first time Bono hit the stage he was not Bono.
Cindy Austin:No, you know it was like it was like you were saying is we don't see all those steps ahead of time.
Michael Devous:Yeah.
Cindy Austin:You know, but so it's just giving yourself permission to be willing to be a learner.
Michael Devous:Yes, and because you know, when you meet me, you meet me now, you meet the version of me that's here, like you meet what, what? Everything that came before you don't get to see, but you get to meet this version of me and you know, I feel compelled in those situations to share so much because I'm like, oh, but you know, this is how I got here and it's like my life was crazy and I've done all these things and da, da, da, da. But it's like you know what they? They don't never know that person. I won't know that person anymore.
Michael Devous:I've changed from those individuals. I've shifted and moved on and I've become somebody different. That doesn't have any bearing. I mean, there's a slight, I suppose, influence to a degree, but it really doesn't have any bearing on who I am today and what I share with you now can be 100% different and authentic than it was before, because it's, it's now my choice. And if I recognize that that choice is available to me, I guess the other side of it is you have to realize that by making that choice, actively choosing to bring the authentic version of yourself, you're allowing for the other person to bring theirs to.
Cindy Austin:So there's some compassion.
Michael Devous:there there's some understanding. There there's, you know.
Cindy Austin:Yeah, yeah, and allowing there to be a softness about it, a willingness, a beginning, a becoming as you go into it, versus a becoming. You know, what we were taught is are you hot? Are we attracted to each other?
Michael Devous:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Cindy Austin:Yeah, I guess we're we're a good date. Let's move on. It's like we lose so much of the flavor of what the relationship is designed to help us know about ourselves when we're younger, we're driven by the hormones.
Michael Devous:I mean, my gosh, I just think about. I mean I was a Randy little bastard, you know what I mean. I, just as long as you met the physical preferences that my brain was telling me probably wasn't my brain telling me, but you know, like I was like, yeah, that dude, you know, and so, and for me now it's sort of like wow, I don't think I did it anyone, because I liked them.
Cindy Austin:There you go and that's the transaction. That was it happening versus the transformation it was just transactional. You'll make me not feel lonely. You'll make me feel like, well, you're hot, so I guess that must be hot. That makes me feel good. You know, it's like it's no transformational content whatsoever. It's like going through and eating cotton candy and you go, I'm full, Like yeah, but there were no nutritional value in that cotton candy.
Cindy Austin:But you're full, but it's just not good for you and your dentist is gonna hate it. So when you focus on this, it's really about what you're saying, what's the new, what's the nutrition, and what do you get out of it. How do you feel in this person's presence? Not just do they like me, Exactly, and so so moving we're.
Michael Devous:I mean, this is we're heading into the fall. It's coming out September 2023, slowly rolling out. This is slowly coming to an end. Any specific milestones or goals that you have in mind for the rest of 2023, or maybe going into 2024, we should know about.
Cindy Austin:In 2024,? That's a great question I'm looking at. Each one of the modules has a workbook to go along with it, because the feedback from people is there's just so much in our live conversations. We need to have something to write on and, as I'm teaching, we need to take notes, and the feedback has been could you put that into a book? And I'm like, oh, that'd be fun. And it to be an interactive dating workbook, cause a lot of concepts are here which I hear with people in practice, but how do they translate? How do you get them into your life? How do we do dating differently, not just think about it.
Cindy Austin:It's like actually getting in the pool and swimming versus reading about swimming. It's like what, what, what would it look like?
Michael Devous:Do you remember the artists way?
Cindy Austin:Yes, oh, I love that book.
Michael Devous:I love that, that journey, you know, and it just had, it just occurred to me. I just had this vision of you know, you, you would the new you know lip sync book or whatever the. You know that that people were showing up at a cafe, each of them with their little dating notebook, and their job was to hand their dating notebook to the other person and the other person was to write an entry in it unknown, not talking or anything, just an entry in the in the dating book and then hand it back and not say anything about it, not read it or do anything until the end of the day, and then they get to see what did you write, you know, at the beginning.
Cindy Austin:That's a cool idea. That was a download, I think you just got one, I think you just got one. They were all witnessing a download.
Michael Devous:That was a good one.
Cindy Austin:That's awesome. Yeah, but one of my dreams would be to have the lip sync badge on you know the top dating apps that if you were to go look at an app and there would be you've done Lip sync approved. Yes, then that would be like okay, this person's serious, they've done some work, they speak the same language.
Michael Devous:On the profile. You could see it on their profile. So you know they've done the lip sync trial or whatever. Then they know you've done some work and some homework.
Michael Devous:You know the same thing in AA and Al-Anon and the 12 step program. You know, a lot of those people who go through the program and stuff utilize the steps in order to help them navigate relationships which I've. You know, my both my parents, my mom and my stepfather were in the program for many years and they always talked, program, program talk. When we were talking about their relationships they used to think, god, that's so unromantic, but at least they knew each other. You know what I'm saying. They had the ability to speak and talk openly with one another in a language that actually, oh wait, communicated their feelings, you know. So I think that's something that, like you said, most people don't have it learned to do and they need to learn to do. So the program like that would be really cool. I think that'd be amazing, you know.
Cindy Austin:And another thing that fits that too is that my trainers from the couples Institute, ellen Bader and Pete Piersen they do training for counselors that work with couples and I said, oh my gosh, I did not know this, but I did a developed lip-sync before I got in the program. I was like I developed a dating program using the developmental model without even knowing the development. So now I'm looking to teach on there with them and really show other therapists how to teach other people how to use a developmental model, cause, like you said, you're like oh how en-romantic. But it's really there's the beginning, when you get that gooey good limerence, the chemical cocktail in your head of being a couple, and then people don't like the second level, which is differentiation, which is where you really have to be authentic. You should be doing that all along, and really being authentic and telling who you really are takes skills of dealing with conflict.
Michael Devous:Well, because we spend what A 95% of our energy and our time at the beginning is to try to find ways we match. How do we get along? What things do we like that are in common? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We never go through the part that goes whoa, how are we different? And we don't get to that part until after we usually have gone pretty far down the road. And now we gotta share the differences. Now we gotta explore the spaces that don't make sense. Now we gotta go. I sleep on the left side of the bed. No, I do. I sleep on the left side of the bed. Like, how are we ever gonna make this work? Well, we're gonna have to have two beds. Like you know, it's not gonna make any sense.
Cindy Austin:Should we put your hand over or under?
Michael Devous:Oh, over, over, over, over Over. So, yeah, there's. You know. I think we don't bring the differences what makes us different and what's unusual and unique and what I've discovered is that people that have long lasting, really good relationships are the ones that didn't have the romance up front but had the understanding and the camaraderie and respect up front, and then that romance beautifully like just blossomed and became this nice warm blanket that was covering everything. Later on I thought that was that's pretty cool. I was not envious, but just sort of like it'd be amazing to have that sort of long understanding of each other, this sort of intimate knowledge that they know you so well and you know, and a respectful of caring about it. You know which. I feel like that's what we're all seeking. Is that what we can find if we come and get help from Lip Sync? We can learn to be our better selves and to find love. Hopefully one day.
Cindy Austin:Yes, well, and again, like I said, with all transparency, when you're emitting on a frequency of, you're living your badass juicy life as it is about your business, your purpose, but wanting, I mean. I could never turn off the wanting to be connected to wanting to couple. I didn't want to turn it off. It was the true, authentic experience that I wanted to have. And then, five years in, I found Joel and then he was like whoa dating a therapist is different.
Michael Devous:I was like yeah, well, we have some serious complications from the start. Is there a journal in a pen in every part of the house. This is very strange.
Cindy Austin:See when you said bring the book and share it right in it was pretty much that that was like yeah, and so really being able to allow myself to tell people it's a process. I don't have it down perfectly, I can't make somebody come in, but if you're gonna date, let's date consciously.
Michael Devous:Yes, thank you. If you're gonna live, live consciously, if you're gonna date consciously.
Cindy Austin:Like hello, let's intentional have some intention, thank you, we must have intention.
Michael Devous:Oh God, this is such good stuff. I mean, ladies and gentlemen, we've got some good nuggets and gems on this show today, some really incredible things. I hate to have to wind this up before I let you go. One of the things that we do we ask our guests, obviously, to get vulnerable and share some of their experiences. We also invite and let our audience know that vulnerability is a crucial and missing element to, I believe, balance and success and happiness in our society today. Thank you for being vulnerable on the show and sharing your journey with us. How do you think vulnerability plays a role in on your a, your fearless road, but also with romance?
Cindy Austin:Yeah, that's a great question and sometimes people take that understanding and they really resonate with vulnerability and then they tell they overshare.
Michael Devous:Ah, yes.
Cindy Austin:And so there's a balanced place between really being able to know being vulnerable is really being present, emotionally engaged, accessible. Not vomiting your entire life secrets in the first day and not talking about all of your abuse from the beginning or everything that went wrong in your last marriage, your relationship. You know it's like. It's like make sure that other person and I think Brené Brown says this make sure the person is worthy of your story.
Michael Devous:Oh, yes, she does this. She says make sure you're with someone who's worthy of your story. Make them earn the right to know the vulnerability. Yeah.
Cindy Austin:And being vulnerable like.
Cindy Austin:I would say I always wanted to say I noticed every time I was like I want to say I was divorced once, because if you say your voice twice, people immediately judge you. Quickly, they make a big snap judgment about you. And so I had to really practice holding on to my little girl and going, yeah, I've had two divorces and if you want to know more about them I'm happy to share it. But I was going to be authentic from the beginning. But most people are pretty respectful and don't ask a ton of questions or a journey. But I think vulnerability is authenticity, it's another word for it.
Michael Devous:It's like.
Cindy Austin:here is my authentic self Sometimes I'm scared, sometimes I'm nervous, sometimes I'm under-resourced and petty and small.
Michael Devous:I think it's and to me maybe I can phrase this it was occurring to me that vulnerability is not when I share. Vulnerability is when I'm in the presence of someone, where I'm allowed to be myself.
Cindy Austin:Yeah. You know, I don't have to. That's what we want.
Michael Devous:I don't have to say anything, but I know I'm in a safe place, no matter who I'm with, and that, to me, is like real vulnerability. You don't have to say everything and share everything. I mean, in fact, as I get older, like I think about dating people right now, you know, and I'm 53 and I'm thinking I don't want to know your whole past, Like I don't think I'd be interested in all those stories and you know what. We got a few years to talk about this. So why don't we ease this out? You know, god knows, you're going to be telling that story at the dinner table when the cousins and the guests are over here. So, like, if I have to hear this 53 times, let's just make that take some time, okay, but like you know, and everything that you did before you know, years ago, may or may not be relevant to who and what you are today, yeah.
Michael Devous:The person you're presenting to me right now, the person you're offering up to me right now, is more interesting and, I think, appealing than going back to when you were 12. And I don't know who that person was and I didn't get to see them. It doesn't make you any more or less romantic to me. It just makes me feel like I missed out on something that I'll never get to be a part of. Not that it's not nostalgic and you couldn't share those memories, because maybe there were good memories and things.
Michael Devous:But I just don't know that we realize that the sum of who you are is a whole lot more than just those stories. And, by the way, the sum of who you're going to become, especially if you're sharing your vulnerability with this new person that's in your life, is going to be something completely new and different, and that is where you're headed Like. That's the journey and that's where you're going. It's going to be incredible. Speaking of incredible Fearless Road, ladies and gentlemen, the journey has begun. Yet again, we have gone down the Fearless Road with since he often empowered and her incredible program at Lip Sync, which brings a little bit of alignment with love and romance and our thoughts and our being present in a world where it's tough and a scarce world to find someone to share your life with, someone to share your journey with, especially on the Fearless Road.
Cindy Austin:Well, the fear doesn't have to be up until now, michael.
Michael Devous:You meant up until now, up until now, up until now, up until now, you can always pull the car over and let someone else in. Up until now, you can always ask Fear to take a back seat so someone can sit gunshot on the rest of this journey there you go, I keep that. Sorry, fear. It's been fine, but this person's really cute. I want them in the front seat with me. You know what I'm saying? You gotta make some space, so you gotta ask everybody.
Michael Devous:The committee that's in the head they all gotta be like, get back there for a minute so I can be vulnerable and present myself and offer some opportunity for love, romance, which is part of the journey, folks. Love and romance is part of fear, it's part of vulnerability, it's part of entrepreneurship. There are so many angles and so many facets to being a successful entrepreneur and a person in this world, and love and romance is a big part of it. So thank you for sharing your time with us today.
Cindy Austin:Thank you.
Michael Devous:Of course I mean. This is something I've been dying to talk to you about and trying to get us to this place to share, so I'm glad that we did. I would love to look at ways to follow up with some of these things. Maybe I need to get into the program. Wow, we got a good community, come join us.
Michael Devous:We do, we do, so it's gonna be good. So, ladies and gentlemen, please thank our lovely guests in the Austin. If they wanna know more about you and they wanna find out more, where can they go?
Cindy Austin:Lip-sync-datingcom.
Michael Devous:Lip-sync-datingcom.
Cindy Austin:Yep lip-sync-datingcom, and that's a great way to get in touch with me there, and then it's also linked to my private practice, which is austinempoweredcom.
Michael Devous:Excellent. Well, let's all be empowered and for the rest of the day, if you have enough of it left, love yourself, be a little compassionate you know, sit back for a minute and recognize that you're vibrant and you're amazing and you share the space with the world and the rest of us and we love you for it. So keep on going down that fearless road. Make sure you stop for potty breaks. Ha ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha ha.
Cindy Austin:Love you everybody.
Michael Devous:Exactly love everybody. Thank you so much. Stay fearless, my friends, and be well. Hey everybody, if you liked what you heard today, would you like and subscribe? Would you follow? Maybe share it with a few people that you think would be interested in listening to the Fearless Road podcast.
Michael Devous:We spend a lot of energy and time trying to have really good conversations about fear and the intersection of fear in our lives, especially where the intersection of fear comes in and impacts our business and impacts our choices and decisions, and I think this is an important conversation that needs to be had, and I know these conversations sometimes feel really long, but I think there's a lot of value in them and I really appreciate it If you stuck all the way to the end of this one. Ha ha ha with Cindy Austin. I mean, we talked about love, and love takes a long time people. This is a journey and this was a good, long, deep and enjoyable conversation and I think, gosh, there was some amazing, wonderful little nuggets of wisdom in here, so I hope you enjoyed it. I hope you're having a wonderful holiday season.
Michael Devous:Love yourselves, love everybody, be good to one another, like, subscribe, follow, share, do all those incredible things and remember, like I said, we've got this incredible event. It's on Facebook, the event is live and up there and we're gonna be having it in February. It's the Leadership Navigator 2024 event, celebrating women in entrepreneurship and all the amazing, incredible things that are coming in 2024 for us, for them, yeah. So I'm really proud to be producing it. I hope you check it out. All right, have a fantastic day and, as I always say, stay fearless. Awardnos to American Conversants, dants and Members of the AUDIENCE you