The Fearless Road

Part 2: From War Refugee to Resilience: Santu Carter's Journey Through Grief and Healing

• Michael D Devous Jr • Season 3 • Episode 14

Share episode

In this 2nd part of The Fearless Road Podcast, what if you could transform your pain into a source of strength? Best-selling author and professional speaker Santou Carter joins us on this episode of the Dive deeper into the entrepreneurial journey with Santou Carter, multi-award-winning therapist and international bestselling author, on Part 2 of this Fearless Road Podcast. Explore the profound impact of early childhood experiences on shaping resilience and the ability to overcome adversity. Santou shares her personal story as a child war refugee, highlighting the challenges of navigating loss, confusion, and the struggle to be understood – feelings many entrepreneurs grapple with when facing setbacks.

This episode also delves into the power of honesty and self-compassion in the face of grief. Learn how embracing vulnerability and communicating authentically, even during difficult times, can strengthen your integrity and attract a community that resonates with your values. Santou emphasizes the importance of prioritizing self-care and setting healthy boundaries, empowering entrepreneurs to lead with authenticity and build a sustainable business and personal life.

Key Highlights:

  • Early Childhood and Resilience: Santou shares her powerful story as a child war refugee, linking early life experiences to building resilience later in life.
  • The Power of Community: Discover how proactive community building can provide a vital support system for entrepreneurs facing challenges.
  • Discerning True Allies: Learn to identify and leverage relationships that offer genuine empathy and compassion.
  • Honesty and Self-Compassion: Embrace vulnerability and communicate authentically to build integrity and attract a supportive community.
  • Prioritizing Self-Care: Set healthy boundaries and prioritize self-care to navigate the emotional demands of entrepreneurship.

Quotes:

  • Santou Carter: "That wound still kind of lives in me and comes up in unexpected times."
  • Santou Carter: "...sometimes you can withdraw, and you can feel lonely and isolated...that's the time when you need to be proactive in reaching out to people who are understanding and going to be supportive."
  • Santou Carter: "So grief kind of swings back and forth like a pendulum. Sometimes you're having dark days and low days, and then sometimes you swing out of that."
  • Michael Devous: "When we use those little white lies, we're lying to ourselves...undermines our integrity, our personal integrity."
  • Santou Carter: "Like attracts like. So if you're wanting someone to be kind to you, be kind to yourself, you know what that looks like."

Takeaways:

  • Early childhood experiences can significantly influence an entrepreneur's resilience and ability to overcome adversity.
  • Building a strong support system is crucial for navigating the challenges of the entrepreneurial journey.   
  • Entrepreneurs need to discern their true allies and cultivate relationships that offer genuine support.
  • Honesty and self-compassion are essential for maintaining integrity and attracting a community that aligns with your values.
  • Prioritizing self-care and setting boundaries are vital for achieving long-term success in business and personal life.

Supporting Links:

  • Santou Carter's Website: griefsupport.co
  • Free Resources: griefsupport.co/freeresources
  • Contact Santou: griefsupport.co/contact
  • Podcast Competition: griefsupport.co/podcast

Important Links:

  • Santou Carter's Website: griefsupport.co
  • Fearless Road Podcast:https://www.youtube.com/@TheFearlessRoad
  • Michael Devous Coach & Speaker: https://michaeldevousjr.com/
Speaker 1:

Hey there, everybody, and welcome to the Fearless Road podcast, where we explore entrepreneurial insights, stories and advice on embracing fear, breaking boundaries and achieving goals on the road to success. I'm your host, michael DeVue, and after years of overcoming obstacles and tragedy, I began to wonder how does someone become fearless? Well, that's exactly what we're going to find out. In every episode, we dive into the lives of individuals who've learned to turn fear into fuel, face some incredible challenges and cultivate a fearless mindset while navigating their fearless road. So join me for in-depth interviews with some amazing people where we investigate more deeply the valleys on their road to success, because the valleys are where character is built, foundations are laid and where the fearless are born.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Fearless Road Podcast. Let's jump in. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Fearless Road podcast. This is part two of my interview with Santu Carter. In part one, we briefly touched on the concept of dynamic diversity and how your name specifically reflects your work as a bridge between people and their healing journeys, and in part two of our discussion, we're going to explore a couple of key areas. One is finding strength and resilience, and two is living a full life despite loss. So, if you will, please can you share with us a little bit more on your background and your experiences that led you to this path in the area of loss?

Speaker 2:

Yeah well, loss has been a theme, a major theme, in my life since childhood, because I come from a family who are genocide survivors, who are genocide survivors and eventually we settled into a country where I was born and then, five years later, when I was five years old, there was a major civil war that broke out and I was a child war refugee. And then we had to dislocate and move to another country, a country where I didn't know the language, and it created a lot of confusion, loss, loss of security of my old home, loss of familiarity, and it was quite a struggle.

Speaker 1:

And so what it was I would imagine, a loss of a sense of self, like you had your identity just barely and then all of a sudden it was tied to all these things. Right as we enter the world through the lens of our caretakers, our parents and our spaces, we forget that we immediately begin to identify the world around us, to ourselves, and that begins to say, oh, I am this thing and this person here in this space, and that's suddenly ripped away. I can't imagine how jarring that must feel.

Speaker 2:

It's like the death of a loved one, really, because you're searching for something familiar and it's not there. It's very much like a death and I know I struggled in the first several years. I don't know how many years I struggled, but I was in primary school or elementary school when I arrived in the country and those first few years were really hard because I could barely speak, I could not understand others and I couldn't be understood. Now there is something there.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

I couldn't be understood.

Speaker 1:

Uh, and that's something I hear from grievers all the time. They don't understand.

Speaker 2:

They judge me, they don't understand. You know that that theme is pretty large.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

In one's life.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, communicating what we need. Feeling unmoored and untethered from your own sense of who you are and what you know, when people don't get you, can be terrifying, I imagine.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it feels devastating, yeah, it's. Yeah, it is, it is, it is really hard, and that it's yeah, it is, it is, it is really hard and that and I you know I was reflecting earlier today that that wound still kind of lives in me and comes up in unexpected times. So even now as an adult, when I'm confused or can't communicate or can't be understood, those old feelings come up, like from when I was a child, and they come up suddenly and I may sometimes burst into tears from frustration. Feelings come up like from when I was a child and they come up suddenly and I may sometimes burst into tears from frustration. And you know that's like grief, that it sort of surfaces and comes up unexpectedly in the form of tears or, yeah, frustration, anger, all sorts of emotions really.

Speaker 1:

How well, let's say, let's go from. That was your early childhood. Can I ask where you were a refugee from?

Speaker 2:

Lebanon. The country was Lebanon, yeah.

Speaker 1:

What country were you moved to? Was it America?

Speaker 2:

Oh, where did I move to? No, it was Canada.

Speaker 1:

Oh, canada. Well, at least among nice people, I mean, the Canadians are, if anything, they're very nice people. I mean, compared to Americans, we tend to be a bit harsh. I imagine our environment is not as friendly or welcoming. Did you find that to be something you compared to because you came from Canada to here?

Speaker 2:

Well, you have to remember that when I moved to Canada, I was amongst children and I didn't dress the same, I didn't have the same accent, and children can be quite judgmental. They're not always the most gracious when you're in school. So, yeah, I didn't have the easiest time when I first started. By the time I got to high school, it was okay. Things had leveled out. I picked up the Canadian accent and I sounded like everyone else and, yeah, it was okay.

Speaker 2:

It was better in high school and I really made an effort to reach out and make friends, make close, good friends. So I was proactive, in kind of creating a community that was accepting of me. And that's something that I want to say about those who are grieving that sometimes you can withdraw and you can feel lonely and isolated and your support network might be gone, and that's the time it's hard, but that's the time when you need to be proactive and reaching out to people who are understanding and going to be supportive. So that's that's important, that that you can't just wait for other people to reach out. Sometimes the one that's had the loss has to do the reaching out.

Speaker 1:

When we're in that space and I'll say this, as entrepreneurs, not just as a normal human, Normal human Like entrepreneurs are super humans or something, but I mean, I suppose they are in some ways. You know, they tackle things on a regular basis that most individuals would just be like no, thank you, I'm not going to go down that path, Mainly because we invite it. You know, as entrepreneurs, we invite additional struggle, obstacles, challenges by putting ourselves, our dreams, our ambitions out there in the world.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

But there's a part of us, I think, that wants to minimize and compartmentalize some of those struggles, and so, when the very thing that we need to do is to reach out, what we end up doing is sort of putting it aside, sort of giving it, going like in a little tidy little box and saying you don't want to get to you later.

Speaker 1:

I've really got some important things to deal with, and we get very good at piece dividing ourselves up into the parts that can deal with specific things at specific times, and so, eventually, what we've discovered is the very thing that we needed to do originally. We've put off for so long. I think you mentioned before part of my problem was shoving the little red ball down under the water until it finally just explodes and it can't take the pressure anymore. How do you help us come to terms with the fact that what we probably need to do is bring it to the surface and ask for that help? What can we do to identify that very need or that very moment, when maybe that is the thing that is stopping us from progressing and we're not aware of it? Right, we've trained ourselves not to be.

Speaker 2:

I think the best advice that I would say for that is to really discern who is on your side, in a sense, who offers compassion towards you, who offers compassion towards you. So family and friends that we used to have may not be the most supportive anymore once you've experienced a significant loss, and so you have to become really discerning. It's almost like fine tuning your antenna to know who to reach out to that's appropriate for this particular stage in your life.

Speaker 2:

So the grief stage, the intensity stage and I would also say that there are people soon discover that there are different types of friends and there might be there might be good friends or there might be a friend that was really good friends in the past, and then all of a sudden they become either illiterate or judgmental about your grief and go are you still grieving? Like can't you get over it? And when they say things like that, it doesn't mean oh, these people don't understand anything, I'll just cut them out of my life, like it's tempting to cut them out. But what you can discern is that this friend just wants the good times, they just want to be happy and positive, and so you can reach out to them when you're in a good place.

Speaker 2:

So grief kind of swings back and forth like a pendulum, right?

Speaker 2:

Sometimes you're having dark days and low days and then sometimes you swing out of that and for your you know, I don't, I don't know an hour a day, depending on the person.

Speaker 2:

When you're on the upswing, that's the friend that you you contact, say, want to go to a movie or want to go for a walk in the park, right, and you'll learn not to contact them when you're in your dark space.

Speaker 2:

And you find other friends that you can contact when you're in a low space or a dark space, right, who will be there for you, giving you the hugs and just the quiet that you might need, the silence that you might need and or a meal that you might need. So it's having to learn who to reach out to and when, because our emotions can be all over the place when you're grieving and in loss. So it's about learning, learning what feeling you have and who the best person would be. It's kind of like having a toolbox and knowing which tool to use for the right job. Right. So you have to pick and choose the right tool you know for different projects and in that sense, that's what you need to do with friends as well Pick and choose who the right person is to connect with for the emotion that you're feeling.

Speaker 1:

Yes, I mean, I don't know that we I'm sure that we do, on some level, identify our friends and the people around us as that individual. You know that. Well, that's the. That's the person I go to for this. That's the person. We may not say it specifically in those words, but we know because our filters have identified who we turn to when we want fill in the blank. Our filters have identified who we turn to when we want fill in the blank and I'm curious, if there's, if you could suggest for us when, a when a big tragedy happens, a moment bigger than than the usual challenges that we normally will face, and we can call that death of a loved one. We can call that the loss of a friend or a relative or a loved one, and that doesn't necessarily have to mean death. We could lose them in a number of different ways. Is there a set of like three or four things we can do, steps we can take to give ourselves a pause, Like when those things happen? You know, one of the things I had to be reminded from a friend was hey, take a step, Take a step back for just a second and assess. This has happened. You deserve this. It's time to reflect what do you need? Like I was pushing, pushing, pushing, you know, my brain going forward.

Speaker 1:

The fires were a prime example where this big thing had taken place and I was in the go go, go fix, repair help mode and I hadn't stopped to ask myself what do you need, who can you get it from and how are you feeling? Or maybe it's how are you feeling? What do you need? Who can get it from One of those things? And is there a thing we can do for ourselves? You know, they have that therapy where they're like tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap. Mine's more like slap, slap, slap, wake up. You need, you might need to take a minute and look around, because you're the only one not paying attention to what's going on, you know, and you're you. You got to take a moment, and I think a lot of us, I'm sure, do that, because being busy feels valuable.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah. Well, there's huge pressure from society to constantly be productive, right?

Speaker 2:

So, there are times when it's legitimately okay not to be productive all the time are times when it's legitimately okay not to be productive all the time. And the other thing I wanted to say was sometimes and you know I'm trying not to make a sweeping statement and make comments about genders, but sometimes women are socialized to be constantly giving, constantly looking out for other people, caring about their needs. I mean, men can be like that too. Men can be great caregivers. Um, so it's looking out for.

Speaker 2:

If your personality naturally leans towards caring for everyone else, you may still try to care for other people in your grief. That's the moment that you step back. When you have experienced a major loss or a major stress in your life, it's okay to say actually, I need to step back and start caring for myself, because it's going to be hard to find people who are going to be constantly there caring for you. It's going to be hard for you to articulate your needs. So, for example, if someone asks you in your grief, what do you need, your mind is going to go blank. You're not going to answer. It's not going to come easily or naturally to say, oh, I need someone to do the groceries for me.

Speaker 2:

Yes, because they don't have anything Because, you know, oftentimes we lose our appetite and we just don't care. We don't care if we're eating or not.

Speaker 2:

And we don't care if we're eating healthily or not, and so it can be very hard at that moment to kind of ask for help, because we're always giving, giving, giving, always giving, giving, giving. And for anyone who's listening, who might be in that boat, who might be kind of observing someone who's grieving and not knowing what to do, I would suggest don't ask them what they need, just give them the basics. So, for example, show up at their door with a basket of food or groceries, or cook them a meal and say are you going to be home at this day, in this time? Great, you could surprise them and just show up when you know that they're going to be home and say here you go. I made an extra pan of lasagna for you. You know something like that. So yes.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I don't know if that comfort food never hurts.

Speaker 1:

I mean, there's a reason why people bring up tons of it to funerals. You know it's. It's so true is that the gesture of something homemade first of all, is specifically for me. My mother was a big food person. We cooked in the kitchen and we celebrated with food. It was her love language, was making food for her family and serving them, and she was an amazing cook, studied all kinds of different kinds of cooking methods and different kinds of flavor profiles, from Mexican to Chinese to Indian, you name it. So we always had a very colorful palette. We're introduced to a very colorful palette, and so for me, celebrating in the kitchen and being in that space is a very natural thing for me.

Speaker 1:

So when someone brings me a dish, a homemade dish, it's a love gesture that really touches me. But I also know that when you're in that space and that crisis mode and that grief mode, you're not hungry, but you will be, and it's probably going to be, not at the normal times of the day, but maybe at 2.30 in the morning after you've had a really severe cry and you can't seem to get back to sleep. And you open that refrigerator door and there's that lovely little thing of lasagna or whatever that somebody had. Just you know chicken, tandoori or something in your life and you just eat.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And you're fed and that's such a nice thing, and I think we forget that. We want to ask what do you need? But just providing them with a nice dish is a big move. It's a nice gesture, it's easy to do too, you know, yeah, and it's If you're a good cook.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, or buy it, you know, or have a restaurant or a fast food place deliver it to their home right. Well, we had our friend.

Speaker 1:

Yes, yes, we had a family recently that we were helping through their grief and we were there in Texas. We're here and we couldn't just deliver. So what we did? We got them an Instacart order.

Speaker 1:

And we just said hey, here's, you know, $500 on Instacart. Get whatever your family needs this week. If you need more, let us know, we'll put more in there. You can order anything and have it delivered. We know you can't get from the house, for whatever reason. Please take advantage of this. They were so grateful because they could order anything. Suddenly they were out of toilet paper. You know, suddenly they were out of toilet paper and you know the effort to just leave the house just to go get basic supplies was not something that they felt they could even manage at this juncture. So being able to just go on their phone and order it and have it delivered without even thinking about it was a relief for them too, absolutely.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I want to explore a few other things. There's an importance of talking about empathy and compassion, which we've mentioned previously and we touched on that, but I want to go into vulnerability. I mentioned before that vulnerability was like I think of it as a superpower, and living a life, a full life, despite loss, requires an understanding of your vulnerability, transitioning and pivoting from a life of loss and tragedy and using this to adapt and adopt a different perspective, but also maintain a sense of vulnerability throughout the entire process, while embracing others. Can you walk us through a little bit about that? How did you get through and from these tragic moments and then now you're delivering it as a service to other people? Was there a time in your life where that didn't make sense and all of a sudden you woke up and were like this is what I can do, or have you always been giving back?

Speaker 2:

I think there was a pivotal moment in my life, no-transcript and it wasn't until, you know, I was caring for her for months until she passed, because she knew it was terminal and she wasn't going to recover from it. And it wasn't until afterwards that I realized that this is the work that I wanted to do to serve people and particularly to support children. So I did so. I went and that that five-year-old girl was just lovely, I really liked her and, um, I then started, then started. You know, I trained in, I did my master's and I started working with young people for quite some time to be able to support them. Because I know you say the word vulnerable who is most vulnerable than children? Right? So I started working with the vulnerable and the elderly as well, but I focus mostly on children, which I just love their energy, I love the joy and I love their vulnerability and really helping them find of 26,. I started serving in the best way I knew how, in whatever ways that I could, whatever circumstances that they were going through. So it started.

Speaker 2:

Young, most people aren't a carer at the age of 12 of someone with terminal illness, aren't a carer at the age of 12 of someone with terminal illness. So I was really thrown into the deep end to care for someone who was vulnerable. But I really enjoyed it. I mean it was a beautiful experience because she was a beautiful woman and she really taught me a lot about how to be gracious and how to care for others. Even in the last moments of her days, the last moments of her life, she was thinking about other people and connecting other people and saying, oh, you should meet so-and-so and this person might help you, and it was just incredible to watch.

Speaker 2:

So, yeah, I think and I also want to say something else about vulnerability. I mean, I talked about it from your perspective, but I also, when I hear the word vulnerable, I also think about compassion as well, it with yourself when you realize that you're vulnerable, because we all are vulnerable at certain points in our time, in our life. You know, sometimes we're strong and sometimes we're not, sometimes we collapse, sometimes we're, you know, at a loss really, and collapsed, and we're vulnerable in that moment to being judged, to being criticized, because no one likes to see other people who are weak and helpless. Come on, get up, keep going, keep being productive. There's that mantra of keep going, fight, fight, fight to survive and keep going, but when people are vulnerable, or having what I call a duvet day, where duvet is you know, what I mean like a blanket day, where they just want to hide under the blanket the whole day in bed.

Speaker 1:

I've had myself some duvet days, don't you worry.

Speaker 2:

And that's okay. And I want to say something about having compassion for yourself when you're vulnerable, because it is normal, it will happen. And by self compassion I don't necessarily mean self pity, I mean just caring for yourself, like saying it's okay, you know what today, and I and I say this, and I encourage people to say, say this to others I'm having a grieving day today. I'm going to be okay tomorrow, but today I'm having a grieving day and I'm going to rearrange my life to acknowledge that. So you know, I may not be doing as much today as I might another day, so I'm not going to be as productive, I'm not going to be meeting all my commitments, I might cancel things Perfectly. Okay, you know. Communicate that with others and say and stand, stand in your, in your fierce self-compassion. You know you can like and I've and I've written blogs about this Like, if there are holidays coming up, for example, and people expect you to be at a family function and you can't cope or you just don't want to go, it's all right to cancel and say I'm having a grieving day, you know I'm not going to be able to make it today.

Speaker 2:

And to warn, not warn, to let people know ahead of time. I may cancel on this day. I'm just letting you know that I'm going to play by ear. I'm going to take each day moment by moment, and if I'm crying on a particular day and I can't make it out the door, that's where I'm at and to just be strong in that and not have people going, really still you're going to cancel. You're still crying. All that kind of stuff. Put it aside because, as I say, they can't offer some people can't offer the same level of compassion that you can for yourself. If you learn how to and it's such an important skill to be able to do that, to learn how to offer yourself just some gentleness, saying it's all right. You know it's like self-soothing, well, it's honor.

Speaker 1:

I think you know, one of the things that I spoke about a few times that struck me about integrity is about the promises and the love that we show ourselves. When we build our calendars out and we build out the things that we're supposed to do and we cancel on ourselves, when we move our time around in order to accommodate another paying client, when we hit the snooze on our own lives, invariably what we're doing is telling our brain and it remembers everything every single time. We do that I'm discounting you, I'm discounting my value, I'm saying you're not important, you're not valuable, you can be moved, you can be manipulated, you can be changed. And in those moments when we fail to honor the part of ourselves that truly deserves this moment of grieving, what are we saying to ourselves? What scar mental and psychological scar are we creating in our lives when we don't honor the part of ourselves that deserves that moment?

Speaker 1:

I had one recently where I did almost exactly what you said. I had several meetings that day and I just sent them all a message I'm having a day and I didn't say grieving day, but I was like it's an emotional. This is a really hard one for me today. I'm so sorry, but I wish I could tell you it was a stomach ache or about whatever, but it's not. I just, emotionally, I'm not there today and you deserve to have somebody that's there for these meetings. I can't do it. I will, you know. Let's rearrange, let's reschedule. I really apologize.

Speaker 1:

I got so much kindness from people saying thank you for sharing that vulnerability with me. Of course I honor that we can reschedule whenever it's time with me. Of course I honor that we can reschedule whenever it's time, and for me it's never the holidays, it's never the big things that really show up and bother me. It's weird moments, just random days where suddenly I feel like I've been punched in the gut by my emotions and that's probably like you were saying my little red balls are coming up. You're, like you know, suddenly finding their way to the top and popping for me. You know, because I've got something I've shoved down there so long ago that I didn't pay attention to. And today I'm trying my best to learn about these vulnerable moments and honor these vulnerable moments, but not only honor them in the sense that I take care of myself, but by verbally saying to other people I'm honoring my need. Today, I'm honoring myself by doing this and hopefully that helps others stand up and do it for themselves and we can role model in that way.

Speaker 2:

And there's something really important here about being honest, important here about being honest.

Speaker 2:

So you, you know, you recognize that you didn't say I've got a tummy ache or I'm feeling physically ill, because that is far more acceptable in society to be physically ill than to have an emotionally wonky day but you were really honest and they could see that transparency and that integrity by saying I'm having an emotional day.

Speaker 2:

We don't have to call it a grieving day, we can say I'm having an emotional day and because it's so rare for someone to be that honest and to say that, to use that phrase and to say that I think you got that level of wow, you know I can relate to this. I've had emotional days in the past and I can offer him that, that kindness. And I want to say one more thing that if you or if anyone encounters some kind of criticism or judgment like when you're saying I'm not having a good day today and you, instead of receiving kindness, you receive criticism and all that I want people to understand that that's about them, not about you. So that's about them not having processed their grief and your feelings, your intense emotions that are coming up is activating their unprocessed emotions and they don't want to feel it, so they try and shut you down, because they're so used to shutting themselves down that they're trying to shut you down as well.

Speaker 1:

Yes, and that's not healthy. Yes, and I think you're touching on something here. Additionally, when we use those little white lies, we're lying to ourselves, we're lying about the feelings we're having Right, we're covering it up using a little lie because it might make somebody else feel comfortable. We're doing a few things here undermines our integrity, our personal integrity. Two, when we find out someone doesn't support us, when we find out someone isn't in alignment, when we find someone doesn't respond positively supportively to our situation when we're being honest.

Speaker 1:

That's valuable information to know If you've been saving them from responding this way because you've been lying to them or giving them an out. You don't know if that's your real friend. You have no idea if that person can support you. So eventually, down the line, when something happens and teeters and they act in a certain way and you feel surprised, you've denied yourself the information you've needed all along to make a determination about who you need in your life. And you have now that information to go.

Speaker 1:

Oh, thank you for letting me know who you really are. That's important for me. I now know that I don't need to go to you for this. I now know I don't need to share these things with you. I now know I can carve that out of my life and put you a little further away if I need to, because what I want to do is make sure I'm surrounded by people who do love and respect me and have integrity and compassion for me. And how do we do that if we're not being truthful with them about who we are and how we feel?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and it's almost like I'm trying to think of a phrase, and the only phrase that comes to mind is birds of a feather flock together, Right or no? It's almost like I'm trying to think of a phrase and the only phrase that comes to mind is birds of a feather flock together, right or no?

Speaker 2:

here's a better phrase like attracts, like. So if you're wanting someone to be kind to you, you know be. When you're kind to yourself, you know what that looks like and you'll know how to recognize it in someone else. And so I love what you said, Michael, about not just being honest with yourself, but honoring your feelings, so that you can recognize when someone else honors your feelings, Right.

Speaker 1:

Yes, 100%. And speaking of this, you know for listeners out there who are experiencing grief, and I want to remind you guys, if you want Santu's help and her support, you can reach out to griefsupportcoco and then forward slash free resources. I would be remiss if I didn't mention, by the way, she also has her own podcast and we want to support her. So if you loved listening to what she has to say and you want to be a supporter of the San Tu, please vote for her in the podcast competition for women. The link is called grief support G-R-I-E-F. Grief support dot. Co. Forward slash podcasts and it'll be in the show notes as well. You can vote as of this Octoberober, I believe, right october 1st.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's the deadline. Yeah, and I just want to say, in case people are looking um, I don't have my own podcast, I'm I I'm in a competition where I'm um, where people can vote for me as a guest expert on podcasts's there's there's other categories. Yeah, there's there's other categories of other people entering the competition as podcast hosts.

Speaker 2:

but I've entered the competition as a guest expert, so on that page that you've mentioned on the pod, on my grief supportco podcast page. I've got lots of other podcasts on there where I've been a guest and you know people are welcome to listen to those as well. I talk about loss and grief on those as well, so you can listen to them. Uh, or, you know, if you don't have a lot of time to listen, you can just simply click on a button to vote for me from having listened to this one.

Speaker 1:

Well, I I'm going to just confess, talking to you is like having a verbal hug. Every time I have you on these calls I just feel like I'm getting hugged every single time. It makes me feel loved and seen and appreciated and I know that's not easy for a lot of people to just say.

Speaker 2:

But I wanted to let you know that it really does warm me. I'm welling up because that's the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me, certainly on a podcast, but just in general. Wow, that's such a beautiful thing to say, it's true.

Speaker 1:

You have an energy about you that is vibrantly comforting for me. I hope the listeners can hear that through this podcast. Do you know when they're listening that it is just so comforting and I love that. I hope people will reach out to you. So, in that vein, would you like to leave our listeners with anything final that you'd like to say before we sign off?

Speaker 2:

sign off. Hmm, how to distill all that I know in one summary sentence? That's a tough one. Maybe I'll say something about the importance of getting early support and the importance, I would say, of counseling or therapy, and I'm not.

Speaker 2:

I think I want to say this because there's a lot of people out there who may call themselves a grief coach or a counselor. They may have had a life, one life experience, in the realm of death or loss and I think they can support others. And I think what I want to say is, just as you would discern which family member or friend you would disclose things, to discern carefully what professional you seek out to support you in your grief, because grief is very complex, there's a lot to it and there's there's a lot of theory that one needs to know. So they need to know, like grief counselors need to know about attach, or I should call them therapists, because counselors don't learn about attachment theory, they don't learn about trauma theory, and those two areas are really important for someone to know about in order to help you in a deep kind of way, so that you're not leaving that counseling session going. That didn't really help me much and I've just wasted all my time I'm still not much better than I was before, and so I just want to encourage people to really do your due diligence in who you reach out for, whether that's family, friend or a professional.

Speaker 2:

Do your due diligence because you don't. You want to be able to move forward and progress and to move forward in a way that helps you to lift your soul and to feel better. And I know that I can do that naturally with my personality type, but it also comes naturally because I've been studying it for so long. I'm studying the greats that came before me and studying the greats that came before me, whereas other people I've encountered in the field haven't studied the greats, haven't studied any kind of theory and they're just kind of guessing at how to help you and reaching into their own experience.

Speaker 2:

And you need to have a much broader understanding of what's going to help people than just what helped you in your own experience of loss. So I don't usually talk about that, but I was talking about that with someone else recently and that's what's on my heart today and at the moment, because people can really suffer in their grief and I I just I can't bear to see people suffering unnecessarily because I've seen so much suffering myself. I want to help alleviate that as quickly and as easily as possible for people. So yeah, I've got a real heart for lifting people out of their suffering.

Speaker 1:

Well, you do and you have, excuse me, you have a life's experience of both tragedy and overcoming study and hard work and effort and connecting Ladies and gentlemen. A best-selling author, professional speaker and coach and trainer, Santu Carter. You can find out more information at her website, griefsupportco. Thank you very much for your time and your efforts at making this world a better place when it comes to grief. If you are out there and you're listening, if you are suffering from something tragic, you know we put on these coats, we put on this armor, we try to get through. But please remember, be very diligent and compassionate with your heart. It needs the time and the space and the attention to heal from these things and you're worth it and it is very important you find a qualified individual to help you get through there and if you want that support and that help, you can certainly find it with Santu Carter, my beautiful, beautiful guest today on the Fearless Road podcast. Thank you so much for what you've done and for everything that you do, and much love to you today.

Speaker 1:

Ladies and gentlemen, this has been a great one. It's been a wonderful part two with Santu Carter. I hope you've enjoyed it. Please put your response like subscribe, do all those wonderful things you know down below, or whatever it is. Uh, to let us know that you've enjoyed this episode. And if you need to find out more, like I've said, you can go to thefearlessroadcom.

Speaker 1:

Uh, you can go on YouTube or wherever and I'll put all the links and stuff in the show notes for you. But this has been Santu Carter on the Fearless Road with griefsupportco. Thanks so much. Thank you, michael, it's been a pleasure. You're welcome. Hey, stay fearless. All right, bye everybody, absolutely.