The Fearless Road

14. From the US to Italy: A Fearless Leap with Catrin Skaperdas of Italian, For Sure

• Michael D Devous Jr • Season 3 • Episode 14

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In this episode of The Fearless Road, host Michael Devous sits down with Catrin Skaperdas, a young podcaster and marketer who has moved to Italy and started her own podcast called "Italian, For Sure". They explore Catrin's journey of self-discovery, her experiences with travel and living abroad, and her insights on finding one's path in life. The conversation delves into topics such as overcoming fear, embracing new perspectives, and the challenges of starting a podcast in a foreign country.


Major Takeaways:

  • Life paths are not fixed and can change throughout one's lifetime
  • Traveling and experiencing different cultures can broaden one's perspective and open up new possibilities
  • Overcoming fear and stepping out of one's comfort zone is crucial for personal growth
  • Starting a new venture, like a podcast, doesn't require perfection - it's more important to begin and improve along the way
  • Understanding that different people have different priorities and definitions of success can help in finding one's own path


Key Highlights:

[5:52] - Catrin discusses her view on life paths and how they are formed by daily decisions and experiences
[7:55] - Catrin shares how traveling impacted her worldview and opened her mind to new possibilities
[20:54] - Discussion on overcoming fears when moving to a new country and starting a new life
[26:35] - Catrin talks about her experience with imposter syndrome and how she overcame it
[40:26] - Insights into starting a podcast and the importance of "just starting" even if things aren't perfect


Best Quotes:

"For me, your path is just a combination of all of the decisions that you make throughout your life, all the information that you have received throughout your life that has allowed you to make those decisions." - Catrin Skaperdas

"Everything is made up. It's all a construct of your experiences, of what you have been exposed to." - Catrin Skaperdas

"You can adjust as you go down the fearless road. It's not fixed." - Catrin Skaperdas


Action Items or Steps:

  1. Reflect on your current life path and consider if it aligns with your true desires and values
  2. Seek out new experiences and perspectives, whether through travel or engaging with diverse communities
  3. When starting a new venture, focus on taking action rather than striving for perfection
  4. Build a strong support system to help overcome self-doubt and imposter syndrome
  5. Regularly reassess your goals and be open to adjusting your path as you grow and change


References:

  • Italian, For Sure podcast: https://italianforsure.com
  • QC Spa of Wonders in New York (mentioned as an example of Italian business expanding to the US) (https://www.qcny.com/en) 
  • "How I Built This" podcast with Guy Raz (mentioned as an inspirational resource for entrepreneurs) (https://www.npr.org/series/490248027/how-i-built-this) 


Additional Insights:

  • The importance of understanding cultural differences when moving to a new country
  • The value of creating content that bridges cultural gaps and provides authentic insights
  • The role of podcasting in sharing diverse perspectives and experiences
  • The challenge of balancing one's career aspirations with the desire for personal growth and exploration

Additional Links

  • Italian, For Sure Podcast: 
    • https://open.spotify.com/show/10R9fg4Fi7oS3N1rNUzoZY?si=4af8f561729347fb 
    • https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/id1737711228?mt=2&ls=1
  • Italian, For Sure Website: ItalianForSure.com
  • Italian, For Sure YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@italianforsure
  • Instagram and TikTok: @ItalianForSure 
  • The Fearl
Speaker 1:

Hey there, everybody, and welcome to the Fearless Road podcast, where we explore entrepreneurial insights, stories and advice on embracing fear, breaking boundaries and achieving goals on the road to success. I'm your host, michael DeVue, and after years of overcoming obstacles and tragedy, I began to wonder how does someone become fearless? Well, that's exactly what we're going to find out. So join me for in-depth interviews with some amazing people where we investigate more deeply the valleys on their road to success, because the valleys are where character is built, foundations are laid and where the fearless are born. Welcome to the Fearless Road Podcast. Hey, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Fearless Road Podcast. I'm your host, michael DeVue, and this podcast, this episode, I was going to say this month because what's happening recently, by the way, I don't know if you realize.

Speaker 1:

The Fearless Road podcast, we deep dive, we deep dive. We dive deep into longer, more personal interviews, one-on-ones, and because it's so long, I split them up into mini-sodes to share with the public and everything. So I usually span that out over a month. And while I've been waiting for the opportunity, I haven't had a good youth on this show yet and I've been very excited because I had spoken to this young lady last fall about her journey and what she was doing. And she was doing some incredible things in Europe already in the field of marketing and podcasting, and I was so impressed with what she was doing.

Speaker 1:

And she was doing some incredible things in Europe already in the field of marketing and podcasting, and I was so impressed with what she was doing I really wanted to get a chance to bring her on here so that you guys could hear a fresh perspective and a different journey, a very fascinating one that I think might resonate with you, especially if you love travel and if you love Italy for sure. So on today's episode we have the incredible Katrin Skopertis, a podcaster, marketer brilliant marketer, by the way, she doesn't give herself enough credit for this and host of the new show Italian for Sure, a podcast out of Italy that takes us inside the Italian culture in their mind and some of the really unique things that they love to talk about and to do that we don't normally get to see on all those overly produced shows which, by the way, I watch and I'm a sucker for. So let's welcome Katrin to the Fearless Rogue podcast. Hi, katrin.

Speaker 2:

Hi Michael, Thank you so much for having me on and thank you for that amazing introduction.

Speaker 1:

Of course You've fascinated me since, of course, the first time we connected for the Maria Faya interview that was last, I think we recorded last fall and I was so fascinated with your energy, your spirit, what you were doing. In fact, I think it was because a small part of me was envious and jealous of what you were doing at your age. My ambitions grew over time. I thought I was ambitious when I was in my 20s. I wasn't, but I did have a lot of dreams about seeing the world and it just never seemed to be one of those barriers for me. I always thought, well, why not? And I didn't have a sense of fear or trepidation about travel at all, whereas some of my family and other people that I knew needed a lot of comfort blankets, a lot of safety blankets, before they made those kind of needed a lot of comfort blankets, a lot of safety blankets, before they made those kind of journeys on their own.

Speaker 1:

And I'm going to start out with the first question, which is not the one we talked about, by the way, because you say this word path. You mentioned the word path. It comes up a lot in your notes and your conversations. You've been focused from a very early age on a on a good path, a correct path, a right path, um, not not because it's a structured thing, uh, but more because it's a journey and and a discovery thing for you, that I felt like that really resonated. What is path? Developing a path, you know, finding the right path for you look like and what does that mean to you?

Speaker 2:

That's a great question For me. Your path can change throughout life. So when I say path, I by no means mean that there's one way of being, that there's one path for everybody, and if you miss that bus and you miss getting on the path that there's no way back onto it. We're forming our path every day, every decision we make. Yep.

Speaker 1:

The road, the fearless road.

Speaker 2:

The fearless road exactly.

Speaker 1:

It's a winding path. It's not direct right.

Speaker 2:

Exactly, and that's what it is.

Speaker 2:

That's the path for me.

Speaker 2:

I guess, when I talk about path in my life as a path For me, your path is just a combination of all of the decisions that you make throughout your life, all the information that you have received throughout your life that has allowed you to make those decisions, and it's a combination of a one foot in front of the other approach.

Speaker 2:

So taking everything day by day, but then also having some sort of general direction for where you want that path to go in the end, and wanting to make sure that my path it just gives me the most out of this life that I can possibly get out of it. And that could mean a lot of different things for me. But I probably talk about path in that way often because I'm always thinking about how can I make sure that, hopefully, when I get to the year 100, I look back at my path and I'm really happy with it. I'm happy for the way that it led me, the road that I took, the fearless path, and I'm really happy with it. I'm happy for the way that it led me, the road that I took, the fearless road that I took.

Speaker 1:

I love that you say 100. When I was your age, looking at 40 was like the longest that I couldn't see past 40, let alone looking at 100. You know, now I'm like 54 and I'm like God I wish I don't even want to be. I don't think I want to be 100. I'm tired already. I don't think I could get there.

Speaker 2:

I wonder if it's because I saw my grandfather live till 103 that it's like a realistic number in my mind. But I, it's like I said, it's this combination, this back and forth, back and forth of this every day, taking every day as it comes, so living really in the present, but then also knowing that what, if, what if I lived to be 100, making sure I'm really happy with my life is when I look back at it.

Speaker 1:

So Katrin is a successful podcast marketing professional, has had a lot of great titles behind her name that she doesn't give herself no credit for, but she's built her own entrepreneurial journey through a lot of hard work and a lot of effort. But before we dive into some of that information, we're talking about paths and we're talking about life's journey, life's fearless road, the paths you talk about in developing a concept and an idea for you and a perspective around those paths. Travel while young seemed to be a big influencer for you. What perspectives do you feel like while traveling, while young afforded you to help you create your path?

Speaker 2:

traveling while young afforded you to help you create your path.

Speaker 2:

Traveling really allowed me to see what my path could look like down the road, by talking to other people and seeing how they were living their lives.

Speaker 2:

But it's something actually that I say that, and I say that after the fact.

Speaker 2:

So when I was traveling, I was in my bubble, I had my thoughts and the way that I thought that life was supposed to be based off of where I grew up.

Speaker 2:

And then, when I started to travel and I started to meet people, I started to have this realization that, wow, many people live very differently and there's not one right way to live.

Speaker 2:

Many people live very different lives, but they're all very happy. And so that concept started to form when I started to travel more and I started to meet people who are all happy, but all living completely different lives, having different priorities, having different things that they cared about, different things that they focused on in life, and it started to open up my mind to say well, what could make me happy beyond what I've been taught my life to this point by the people that, of course, always thought to do right by me? Maybe they were teachers, parents, friends that shared with me their perspective, but we all shared a similar perspective because we were all from the same place. When you travel and you meet people and they're doing jobs I'd never even heard of before and they're caring about things that I had no idea that someone would care about, or they're not caring about things that, back where I came from, were so important.

Speaker 1:

So just being more open minded. Really being more open minded is really what travel has afforded me and allowed me to make decisions, to form event called Leadership Navigator 2024 back in March, where I had a bunch of executive, female leaders, entrepreneurs coming together to talk about authenticity and leadership, mentorship and branding and messaging, and it was fascinating to me because each one of them came from a different background, getting to a singular definition for what success and happiness means. It depends on where you came from, and each person had a different idea in their mind and I realized for me as well that, because of the world I grew up in and the people I grew up with, happiness was defined by attaining these things, and so you think those are the things you need to go after. And I heard a motivational speaker talking about raising our children to reach for the low hanging fruit. When we talk about the fruit, the tree of success, that most of us teach our children to reach for low hanging fruit because it's what's accessible and that's our understanding of happiness, that's our understanding of success. But if you teach a child to go for the higher fruit up the tree, they can attain bigger things.

Speaker 1:

And he said what if we taught the child to just have their own orchard, and I was like it blew my mind because I was like, oh my gosh, you know, we don't. We don't see the orchard. We see what our parents gave us, we see what our community gave us. We see what our little bubble, as you say, showed us, what fruit was available? Right, because they too had limited beliefs, limited experiences, limited perspectives as well, even though they were trying to give us what they thought was, you know, for our own happiness and our own success. But if you get outside of that, like you did with travel, you begin to see that everyone's tree has different fruit, that there's so many different options out there, and I love that you were able to have. That new perspective, afforded you the opportunity to sort of look at reinventing your path and your journey at a very innate thank you.

Speaker 2:

I appreciate that. I mean I did have to go through um difference of opinions with people that meant a lot to me. That yeah could not. Uh couldn't see that and and said things to me like uh, everybody wants to live in new York and you don't want to live in New York and gosh.

Speaker 1:

No, the people in Costa Rica don't want to live in New. York and the people in. I've heard that too.

Speaker 2:

Right, or when I left. I used to be an accountant and I was working at PWC. And when I left that job, that career path, because I realized early, early on, thankfully, that that was not the path I wanted to go down, I was told how could you leave this stable job that people dream of? Having a job like this and you'll have, you know, you'll be secure. But it wasn't for me and I couldn't understand this concept that there was just this one way of being, let alone now I moved from the US to Italy and that is a whole different conversation, but being told well, how could you leave the US?

Speaker 2:

You know people come here to the US. I'm like well, people move to different countries all the time and for some different countries and work better for them and their personalities. And I just have more of this mindset that there isn't a right answer, there isn't a right one way of living.

Speaker 1:

There are thousands. And, by the way, ladies and gentlemen, if you're actually watching this episode, I am in my hello moto, my beautiful little moped Italian shirt that I got in Italy last summer. So this is my homage not only to Italy, but to Trin, who is in Italy. I love Italy, so now I'm in love with her. By default, it's my. You know that's what's going to happen. She doesn't know it yet. Thank you, michael.

Speaker 2:

She can tell her fiance about it, or your husband. Is he your husband yet? Fiance, fiance, american husband who loves Italy podcast.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, your pod doesn't, or something whatever. Yeah, that's what they say. So, okay. So you mentioned moving to Italy. There had to be some fear and trepidation with taking that step. On how early in your career path was that when you decided to make that decision? And then, if you could let us know how did that fear manifest? In what ways? And then, are there specific things you did to either A overcome it, or was it just by the sheer fact of being there? You kind of had to.

Speaker 2:

I decided I wanted to move to Italy, officially November of 2021. And I took almost that whole year Right after. Covid, I think the pandemic for me was just another one of those moments where the fact that our life is finite was really just there in front of me and it really just had me reevaluate everything.

Speaker 1:

I think it did that for a lot of people. I think a lot of people had to sit and reevaluate and took the time, took that opportunity that COVID afforded them to reevaluate where they were and to make a different choice. So this is what you decided.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, exactly, and I did. I took a year, though, before making the decision. I mean, it wasn't a rash decision, I didn't go into it lightly. I really tried to think about every single aspect of what my life would look like living in Italy. Of course, I have the privilege that I have the ability that I knew that if I didn't like it, I could move back. It wasn't something. I knew that if I'm deciding this, I could never change my mind. So that helped. But it's not an easy thing to move everything to a different country, also to learn a different language and learn a different culture, learn different customs, and so I did take almost a year to really to think about that decision.

Speaker 1:

And you did that, but you weren't speaking the language yet, right? You only knew a little bit.

Speaker 2:

Well, when I first was thinking about it, I only knew chow and not even really I didn't know anything.

Speaker 1:

Oh Lord.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it was really bad.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

No, it wasn't bad. I just didn't know the language. But I did start taking lessons just a couple times a week with a tutor, and so I started to get just the basics down. So I was learning while thinking about the decision and then, of course, when I moved here, I started to do more intense classes, which we can talk about. But you mentioned fear. I mean, there were so many fears when I was thinking about moving here that I had to eventually overcome, because I eventually did decide to actually move here, and there are a variety of things. I kind of think of my life in lanes, and so maybe it's because of this idea of paths, exactly.

Speaker 2:

And when I think of the different lanes in this path that I could take to go down. It's like one's career, one is family, one is. Now, I mean, learning Italian has become one of my paths, and so you know. First fear am I going to miss my family and my friends here too much? Am I going to want to just come right back? Next fear I knew that the job that I had at the time, which I really enjoyed I was the marketing director, director of audience development at Cumulus Media Loved the company, loved the people that I worked with and had no reason to leave other than the fact that I wanted to move to Italy.

Speaker 2:

And so having to find another job that I actually liked in the sector that I'm in, which is podcasts and podcast marketing, and so all of these fears, my biggest fear was that I knew that if I moved here, I was moving here with the intention of actually staying long term. So I talk about permanently relocating. Oftentimes, when people say I'm an expat, I kind of correct them or introduce myself as an immigrant, because I am, I'm, I'm planning on living here long term and, as far as I, know, I think of an expat as someone who's retired and then makes that their home.

Speaker 1:

That's the way I view it. That's what I was thinking when you were talking earlier about moving. So many expats do this, but to me there's somebody who's sort of retired and then living out the rest of their years there, whereas for you you're younger and making it your new home, not retiring, having to seek work, having to find a life, and it's not just like you've got a bank account with money that's going to, you know, roll in every month and you can, you know, live off of it.

Speaker 2:

No, absolutely not. And it wasn't one of those situations where, you know, I thought, oh, I just I'll save up and then I'll just use my savings Like I wanted, to continue working and continue making income and continue continue my life, just just in a different location.

Speaker 2:

And one of the fears that kept coming up over and over for me was I do want to have kids and will I be a bad mom? Because if I'm in a place that I don't know all the ins and outs of how things work, will I not be able to help them live their best lives, especially if I didn't end up learning the language to the best of my ability, which I'm trying. I'm taking lessons and I do think that by the time that I have kids I'll be able to really I don't want to use the word fluent, because I think that would take many years but really speak very well.

Speaker 2:

But these are all fears that popped into my head. And you know, moving to a different country, I actually didn't even know some of the challenges that I would even have until I moved. So I had all these fears.

Speaker 2:

And then, actually, when I came here, some of the fears were, um, were re, you know, were realized, they came true, and then I had to work through them. And then there were also additional things that I didn't even realize until I moved here, that I have to, had to have to deal with, but, um, at the end of the day, one one thing that I really try to do in my life is when I make a decision, when I make a choice, if that choice ends up becoming bringing me challenges and is hard, I remind myself that I am the one who chose that and it helps me keep a positive outlook. So, instead of when I was faced with all these challenges when I moved here, I mean, essentially, it's like being a child all over again. I had to relearn how to do grocery shopping because, I remember your story talking about.

Speaker 1:

It's funny when you describe your experience in the grocery store, because we have a grocery store called Central Market in Texas. Get your fruit, your produce or whatever. You have to weigh it, you have to get the little printed sticker for it. Put it on your own stuff, then bring it up to the front and it became a thing you know, like a cute thing that people did at Central Market as opposed to for you in Europe. You're like wait, I'm supposed to bag and tag my own stuff.

Speaker 2:

I had no idea. I went up to the front with my. I think I just wanted like an apple that day yeah, my own stuff. Challenges like those. It allows me to keep a positive mindset and to say, okay, I knew this was going to happen. I knew I was going to have to work through some challenges. There is a light at the end of the tunnel and so that has helped me a lot. And then getting through some of these fears, like when I first moved here.

Speaker 2:

Specifically, I'm in Milan, italy. The easiest way to get around, for me at least, is riding a bike. Now I know how to ride a bike, but where I come from in the US is more of what they would call here a countryside. So I'm from Long Island. I wouldn't call it a countryside. People in Italy call it a countryside, but it's not a city and you don't ride your bike. You get into a car and you drive places, and so I hadn't rode a bike in a very long time. And here now I had to learn how to well get back on a bike. Let's say, not learn how to ride a bike, but learn how to ride a bike next to cars.

Speaker 2:

Learn that if a pass on small streets or big streets, but big from Italy, from Milan, but navigating. If the parked car on the side opens up the driver's door and that's unexpected to not veer into traffic, it's better to just go into the door or to get the good lock, because when you park you have to lock your bike. But make sure that the pole they are using to lock your bike doesn't come out of the ground, because sometimes that's a little trick.

Speaker 2:

So that's and it's all these things and I think that this is something I've done in my life with other things as well, like I ran the New York City Marathon, and when I do hard things and I get through them, like I got through riding a bike in the city, it helps me get through these other things, like learning how to grocery shop, learning XYZ I can't think of other examples right now that if I can do that first hard thing, I can do all these other hard things. And I need to push past the fear Even when I was on that bike, crying, heart racing, feeling like there's no way I can do it pushing through knowing I can do it, and then when I do it, the rest of my challenges seem lighter. If that makes sense Well.

Speaker 1:

So this is one of the things that I talk about often. It's a statement that I make often, which is I specifically with entrepreneurship. When we announce to the universe that we want to do, have or be something other than who and what we are today, we are telling the universe we want to grow into this next great version of ourselves, we want to step into this next version of ourselves, the most authentic version of ourselves, because we see an opportunity there version of ourselves, the most authentic version of ourselves because we see an opportunity there. Well, when you do that and you announce to the universe that you want to do, have or become something other than who you are today, it comes with those challenges. You are inviting the opportunity to grow, which means it comes with those challenges. And I say you can't go into Gold's Gym and say I'm inviting the opportunity to grow muscles but you're not going to pick up a weight. That's not how that works Exactly. And the bigger the dream, the bigger the thing you tell the universe you want to have. By the way, those challenges are going to come and the fact that you already A accepted that you made this choice, owning responsibility for the choice that you made to step fully into that experience. Number one. Number two, that it would come with these challenges some you might anticipate and others you wouldn't. And then, finally C, that you would tackle every one of them along the way and know that you're going to grow from them and learn from them and come out the other side, to grow from them and learn from them and come out the other side.

Speaker 1:

Having that mindset, I think, is well. First of all, I think what putting yourself in those experiences, by the way, builds neuroplasticity. It's one of the things I've touched on a couple of times in other episodes talking about. If we place ourselves in uncomfortable situations, getting outside our comfort zone, and we challenge the neuroplasticity of our brain as we begin to tackle those things, the more we get comfortable with tackling them. Then, when those other challenges come along, they're not so intimate and fear doesn't have the same power that it used to have before. Do you find that to be true for you as well?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, and you put that into beautiful words. It's exactly how I feel that when something feels uncomfortable, I know that it's uncomfortable because I haven't done it before and it's like exercising a muscle. It's funny, you use the Gold's Gym example and I always talk about that exercising a muscle and it could be as simple. As you know, flying for some people is a fear, but you know, maybe you get on a flight that's just an hour, so that the next time you get on you see, ok, if I did that, maybe I could do the one that's three hours and then I could do the one that's six hours. So you know, starting small, but I absolutely do believe that that if you exercise the muscle of whatever is uncomfortable for you, it will get easier and that could even journey out into other things, like the bike riding example. Or I mentioned really briefly, I ran the New York City Marathon in 2019. That was really challenging for me. I'd never run a marathon before, or even a half marathon, or even a 5K.

Speaker 1:

So why not? Why not take on the bigot? Yeah, right, hello.

Speaker 2:

But because I did it now, when something else is hard, especially, for example, physical things, like if I'm in a workout class or something I'm like.

Speaker 2:

Come on you ran the New York City Marathon. You can do this, but yeah. Or if your bicycle gets a flat and while you're in Italy, you're like it's only a few hundred blocks, I can do this. I'll just run it Exactly. Well, listen, nothing prepares you more for challenges than Italian bureaucracy. If anyone's ever dealt with Italian bureaucracy, that comes as no surprise. But yeah, no, I joke, but it's true. Exactly what you said is true.

Speaker 1:

Red, white and green tape Exactly so you describe. Uh, it's a part of the experiences that you have, you know, while being there and rebuilding your life and reinventing yourself and taking on new roles and opportunities, experiencing imposter syndrome, um, early on, and how? So? A lot of people, entrepreneurs specifically, really, you know we feel that we feel imposter syndrome because we're stepping into something that's new to us. We're trying to take on a new role and a new responsibility and a hundred different hats that we're trying to wear to build our business, and imposter syndrome is a tough thing because it's part of our brain that tells us we're not worthy of stepping into this thing that we want because we haven't learned enough, we haven't the skill set isn't quite there.

Speaker 1:

Who do we think we are? Are we? You know what I mean? It's, to me, it's always a self-worth issue and understanding that, your value. Do you have the right to take this on and do it? When you were experiencing imposter syndrome, tackling all of these different things in Italy and in Europe, how do you describe that for you? Was it feelings of self-doubt or self-worth for you, or how was imposter syndrome manifesting itself for you there?

Speaker 2:

Imposter syndrome in general in my life has manifested itself probably the most in my career path. As you mentioned entrepreneurship I did mention earlier, I started my working lane in accounting. Now I'm a podcast marketer and you kind of briefly touched on it in the beginning that I've, you know, I've done a lot of different things and I've learned a lot of different skills along the way and now I define myself as a podcast marketer and there have been a lot of moments along that working lane that I have had this imposter syndrome and this idea of well, who am I to be teaching others or growing other people's podcasts, et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 1:

Of course, we're getting paid to do, or getting paid or getting paid the right amount. I have priced myself very low. I remember you mentioned where you were like your first invoice and you were like I did not price myself.

Speaker 2:

No Value myself.

Speaker 1:

Let's, let's call that value myself by enough.

Speaker 2:

Exactly yeah that has?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's myself by enough Exactly. Yeah, that has. Yeah, that's manifested Absolutely. I anticipate it's going to. Probably, you know, imposter syndrome is going to come up again when I am hopefully a mom, which is something I want to be. I'm sure I'm going to doubt myself then.

Speaker 2:

But I will say, the thing that's helped me overcome it initially is a support system, because over time I've been able to beat imposter syndrome by just actually proving to myself by actual results that I know what I'm doing and I can get really good results. For, for example, now in podcast marketing for podcasts, I can grow audiences for podcasts very well and I know what I'm doing there. But that takes time because you have to get past imposter syndrome to actually start to do the thing to get the results. So in the beginning, having a really good support system is really, really important, and I haven't always had that. There's been moments in my life where it's been stronger than others. Currently in my life it is extremely strong.

Speaker 2:

I have a very amazing support system and so that has definitely helped me push past doubt in times where maybe I wanted to price myself lower. I didn't want to give myself that value for whatever reason. I am having external factors which of course we want to look within before we look externally. But sometimes when it's hard to having that good support system, to externally say, hey, no, you're worth more, you're doing a great job, actually, you're really good at that Helps a lot to kind of push through those initial first moments of doubt. First moments of doubt. And then I think just something that really helped me was continuing to practice and learn my skill and my craft. So I'm always learning and trying to be better at what I do so that I can't doubt myself. I almost have. I don't have time to doubt myself because if I'm not actually doing the work, I'm learning how I can do it better.

Speaker 1:

And so I was going to say can you give someone else some tips and tricks, which you just did, I think, on doing that, one of the things that I talk about and we actually talked about this on Leadership Navigator as well was imposter syndrome, which I kind of take offense at as entrepreneurs. I firmly believe if you're an entrepreneur and you've stepped onto this path, onto your fearless road, and you are tackling the things you need to tackle to learn, to become the thing you want to become, you're not an imposter. You are in the becoming right and the journey of becoming is not fake. There's nothing fake about it. Every step you take, every stumble, every struggle, every obstacle you've overcome to get there is part of a journey to become the thing that you're claiming you want to step into and to be. That journey is no less valuable than having attained the actual title. The actual title.

Speaker 1:

And to me, to suggest that it's imposter behavior, it's not fair and I don't like it, and I'm trying to reframe it for all of us, because I feel like if you're genuinely becoming an entrepreneur and you're stepping out onto a path just like you did, not only are you stepping out onto a path, you're stepping onto it outside of your own country, in a whole new country, learning a new language and taking on a new set of roles and responsibilities, using those skill sets that you already are passionate about to develop a career, and I honor you and I admire you for doing that and now role modeling it for others. So congratulations, you are not an imposter to me.

Speaker 2:

Thank you so much, Michael. Your words are very kind and I love your work. To try to rephrase imposter, because it's true, Nobody just you know was born as a successful owner of a, and all the episodes that came out where the one that stuck with me was Dyson and Dyson wanted to create this new vacuum and everyone was like who are you kidding? Hoover has the vacuum market.

Speaker 2:

You're never going to be bigger than hoover yeah, um, and then he, he did and I think there's more to that story like he got kicked out of his own company because he had like um, at that point he didn't own 100 anymore and they really thought like this guy is nuts and and you know. But he did it and he pushed through and now he's. Everyone, I think, knows what a dyson is. Um, if you don't, they sell vacuums and hair blow dryers for your hair and other accessories.

Speaker 2:

But yeah, it's a good, it's taking in information, like you said, like you want to help people with this podcast. You know this is amazing that you're doing this podcast because hopefully others can hear this and have a light bulb moment, that you know, oh shoot, I'm feeling imposter syndrome. But you know, actually I'm just on my path and you know it's OK and I'm just going to work through my path to keep getting better and eventually I won't feel this way anymore.

Speaker 1:

So well, let's dive into podcasting.

Speaker 1:

I love that you're passionate about that and I love that not only were you passionate about helping others bring their message to market and really create better impact which I might actually you know offline ask you for some help and some ideas on how to get more listeners for me now that you do it so well but you took what you knew and your passion for Italy and then you turned it into your own podcast and you were talking about not on this episode, but we were talking previously about Just Start, when I was learning to do my motivational speaking, when I was learning to do my coaching and consulting, when I was learning to create a number of different things over the last two to three years from my entrepreneurial journey.

Speaker 1:

Do you know that the number one piece of advice I have seen and heard written down in almost every single course and class that people say is to just get started. It doesn't have to be perfect, it doesn't have to be good, Just get it going. And that very act of energy, that very act of just getting started, does something for us as entrepreneurs. That's different from other experiences. Can you talk a little bit about we're getting to that, like how you, what you did to just start, and then we're going to talk about Italian for sure.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely so. I got the advice to just start when I was thinking about my podcast idea, and I had been thinking about it for so long because what I was doing was I had gotten the equipment at this point. You know I'm not a podcast producer, but I learned a lot about podcast production. I had, you know, reached out to the guests I wanted to talk to. I had planned the episodes, the episode outlines, I had done, you know, all of the things you're supposed to do audio only, or video and audio and there was so much planning going on and I guess I'm a perfectionist in that I really just wanted to get everything perfect before it went out, and probably there was definitely fear of knowing that this product that I was putting out into the world is something that people will then know and be able to listen to and judge me for.

Speaker 2:

And I don't say that in a bad way, it's just naturally. We do that right. We listen and we consume things and then maybe we have a thought about them, and so I wanted to make sure it portrayed my best work and my best ability. It portrayed my best work and my best ability, but that thought was just rolling and it wasn't helping me get started. And I remember being at a podcast event here in Milan and somebody from a podcast network here just said those two words to me. They were like just start. And I don't know why, Maybe other people had even said it in the past but when he said those words just this person that I'm connected here through podcasting I was like okay, and maybe it was because I really was ready at that point. I mean, really I had gotten everything prepared and ready.

Speaker 2:

So there really wasn't anything that I left to do.

Speaker 2:

But I think for me, what Just Start meant was it doesn't mean start with absolutely no plan. I do believe that you know you should probably think a little bit and plan, but if you're getting held back by making sure, trying to make sure that everything is absolutely perfect before you go ahead and launch the thing, so, for example, with podcasting, it's putting it out for other people to listen, to Just put it out, and especially with something like podcasting, specifically because it's usually a long journey, exactly a long path, a long road.

Speaker 2:

When you put out a podcast, unless it's a series or fiction or something like that. The style of podcast I'm doing I plan on doing for many, many years and I've being in the podcast industry have heard other podcasters.

Speaker 2:

I've heard their first episode and I've heard their hundredth episode and it's often very different and I you know, listen, I'm not sitting there going, oh, but their first episode was so bad, it's like, well, that's not what I'm thinking. I'm thinking you know how great it is now, or how great that they started, or how great that they decided to even take the journey, because you know, it's as you mentioned before that it takes confidence to go ahead and start that journey. So I think I really just had to self, I had to think about what I would, what advice I would give to someone else, and so when that person said, just start to me, I was like that's advice I think I would give someone else that was in my position, and so I said OK, and I think I curves.

Speaker 1:

There is some video that I can't use because I cut my head off, and there is other times where I remember when you were trying to like, do B-roll with your, with your, with your phone camera and you, I did exactly the same thing. I thought I'm going to get B-roll from the left side and I'm going to do this, and then I go back and look at it. It's like you could see half of my nose and my face and I was like, darn it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so you know that's the one, one, one video. My camera completely dies half the way through, so it's like yeah. So, you know I had to go.

Speaker 1:

Who hasn't experienced that? The art of finding the, you know, the permanent battery pack or the power source?

Speaker 2:

Well, now I plug it in. I've learned, I plug it in.

Speaker 1:

Plug it in. Plug it in. It's not just air freshener folks, it is actually good advice for your camera For your camera, for your video podcast. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

But I think it was also acceptance acceptance that it doesn't have to be perfect, and it doesn't even a hundred episodes later. It doesn't have to be perfect, and especially in the podcast industry specifically. Things are constantly evolving, they're constantly changing. There's new technology, there's new best practices. Now we're doing video. Before we were just doing audio.

Speaker 2:

So I think I had to get out of my own way and just start and I give that advice to anybody. If you're at a point where you've already done the planning and the plotting and the thinking and you're like getting close to releasing the product and for some reason you just can't press the big green button that just puts it out into the world, set a date, make sure everything's ready, set that date and get it out there, because it's going to be great, it's going to be fun.

Speaker 1:

So you just gave us tips about overcoming the fear of launching. Put that date on the calendar, folks. One of the things that this particular audience on the Fearless Road podcast I may not have mentioned, the Ascend Hub, which is a new online membership community that I am launching August 19th.

Speaker 1:

I'm holding you to that I am, well, I am. So it's aspiring entrepreneurs, mentors, leaders, people who are looking for a community of individuals and resources to help guide them on that particular journey. One of the things I experienced and even in my 54 years or 52 years when I did this, of experience I've had marketing careers, production careers, multimedia performance, you name it Even with all the skill sets that I had, and I considered myself to be pretty savvy and technically proficient was challenging to both be isolated, overwhelmed by the tech, overwhelmed by the information overload, and feeling alone on my journey. I wanted to create a space for all of us where we could do it together and share those resources and that knowledge and that experience. And one of the things that I realized that the community could do was to hear other people say just get started. One of the things I found was yes, I believe that it is you have to sort of be ready, that a part of you has to have reached that space where you're ready to hear that message, even though a hundred people might've said it to you before, but what I love about this online community is that you might hear it said from others, from somebody else in a certain way that finally comes through for you, that finally gets through and sinks in and gets you to take that action, that you need to go ahead and be successful, to take that chance on yourself. And I love that you were in that space, that mindset to take that chance on yourself, and I love that that, that you were. You were in that space, that mindset to do that.

Speaker 1:

Um, what so you said you had obviously your experience was in podcast marketing. You knew enough, like to get in trouble, having having seen what everybody else was doing, and I think it was a bit of a roadblock for you. Knowing as much as you did, I think if you'd come from it from a place of ignorance, you might have just done more right right away. Um, what was the turning point that led you to go ahead and start? Italian for sure? And then, why italian for sure? Like we'll talk about, tell us about the podcast, let's's go ahead, and like that, let's go ahead? And, yeah, did you find knowing too much to be sort of that getting what you said, getting out of your own way?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. You hit the nail on the head with that, because being in the industry, being in the podcast industry, I knew that this podcast, while I hope that it would find the right people and I'll talk about what the podcast is about in a second in the target audience, I also knew that the industry might look at it, and that is also a reflection of my work, and so I wanted to put my best foot forward for my career path as well, and so it was kind of these two lanes, as I mentioned, kind of combining my career lane and also now this podcast lane where, for example, someone who knew that maybe being on camera doing a video podcast was something that was a block for me because I was a little nervous to be in front of the camera, they said, well, just start with audio. And I said, I know disrespect to people who are starting with audio, but all the podcasts that I'm working with now are all getting set up for video because that's the direction that we're going in the podcast industry.

Speaker 1:

Thank you, YouTube.

Speaker 2:

And so it just I couldn't do it because, being in the industry, I said how can I go out with an audio only podcast now, knowing what I know? As you said, how could I not get the Shure SM7B mic?

Speaker 1:

and you know, dip into my Sagan. I'm envious of it because I have the other Shure, but I really want that one. I haven't upgraded yet, but I'll get there.

Speaker 2:

No, and you know what, though? There's so many podcasts that sound amazing and they don't have like whatever level of equipment and you don't need it anymore, but I just I really wanted that. I had that perfectionist mindset, and, who knows, now, if I look back, maybe I could have started with, you know, not taking on video right away, not the best equipment, and would it have turned out fine?

Speaker 1:

Probably yeah, but these are all just things that I think I had in my mind, because I work in the industry absolutely but don't you think that the audience is also way more savvy nowadays and their expectation level of performance and productive product quality of production has has increased as a result of better quality stuff coming out all the time? Like back in the day, five, ten years ago, you could tolerate a poor quality podcast because it was a podcast you're like. Well, they're not supposed to be and they're not overproduced and they're not, you know, they're not done by the big studios and things like that. So for us I think our expectation levels were much lower and nowadays I think it's much higher.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. Someone said to me recently oh hey, I listened to your podcast and it sounds like the other podcast that I listened to from from some network I won't even you know mention names, it doesn't matter, but it was like a highly produced network that probably put a lot of money and resources behind that podcast. And it's interesting that that was the kind of compliment that they wanted to give me and it was for me because I'm in the industry, and I said thank you, and I've gotten compliments on my setup. When I went and did a recording here at the Spotify office with someone there and I brought all my equipment and I set it up and they said, wow, this is one of the most professional recording setups that I've seen. And so it's these things that I think are coming from the fact that I'm in the industry, not necessarily just because of what I want to do, what I'm, what the podcast is about, which I'll tell you.

Speaker 1:

Yes, that's segue.

Speaker 2:

So the podcast is called Italian for sure, as we mentioned before, and the overall mission of the podcast is to help spread accurate information about Italian culture. It's in English. Target is Americans who maybe they have, maybe their ancestry is Italian, or maybe they are just fascinated by Italy, as many are, or they studied abroad in Italy or new fan or maybe they're they just they want to go to Italy and so they want to kind of get like a guidebook of the culture before they go.

Speaker 2:

The idea of Italian culture in America is sometimes skewed because we have this strong Italian-American kind of subculture, and so there's this. Sometimes there's misinformation about what is actually Italian culture and what is Italian-American culture, and so part of the mission is also to kind of create that divide and to say, okay, this is actually Italian from Italy culture. But I didn't feel it was right for me, as an American, to just start a podcast where I am talking about Italian culture just alone by myself, and so I thought it was a wonderful opportunity.

Speaker 2:

This is the beauty of the format to interview Italians and to say, hey, this is what I've noticed as an American, maybe a difference. And then we talk about that part of Italian culture, because it's the perspective of something that an American would find interesting, because I'm noticing that difference. And then they talk about it. And you know, I've talked to Andrea Quadrio Curzio from Cucci Terme, which opened up in the US. It's now rebranded to QC Spa of Wonders in New York. If you're ever in New York, on Governor's Island there's QC Spa.

Speaker 2:

So I've talked to founders of big companies, international companies, and then I also I'm talking to street performers and I'm talking to everyone in between and I'm talking to people from Milan and Rome and Sicily and all different regions. There's 20 regions in Italy. Those were not the names of regions, so just don't come for me. Those are names of cities. But you know, I had this mission and desire to start this podcast, um, and, and I've been thinking about it now probably for two years, because I was writing down every time there was one of these interesting cultural differences. I wrote it down in a note and it just got to the point where that note in my phone was so long, I was like I should do something with this. Um, and it started Italian. For sure because it's Italian culture, for sure because you're hearing it from Italians.

Speaker 1:

So for sure is, it's not just a like, for sure, because it's Italian culture, For sure, because you're hearing it from Italians. So for sure is, it's not just a like, for sure, like it's not like a statement, or what was the, what was that part?

Speaker 2:

That part.

Speaker 2:

I had thought so long about the name to try to have a name that one did not give the impression that the podcast was about Italy and traveling around Italy, Because there are a lot of podcasts about traveling around Italy and I had tested a lot of names with different groups of people and people kept saying, all right, I wouldn't tell them what the podcast was about and they would say, oh, it's about traveling in Italy. And I say no. And I finally got to Italian for sure, which didn't give that. Of course, maybe you're not sure that it's certainly about culture, but it didn't immediately say to you or give someone the impression that it was about travel, and so for sure was, it's for sure, italian. Don't take my word for it, not because I'm American, but let's talk to Italians and get them to say what's actually Italian and what's not. For example, do not cut the pasta.

Speaker 1:

Or in Italy, Do not break the spaghetti.

Speaker 2:

In Italy they absolutely do not use the spoon to twirl the pasta. Maybe if you're a kid and you're learning, but definitely not as an adult. No, and then we really go beyond the stereotypes, and that's another thing. I really wanted to have conversations that go beyond pasta and pizza and Vespas. We have fun talking about those things, but then we also talk about a lot of various things. I mean recently, in the episode that I released last week, we talked about silence.

Speaker 2:

So in Italian culture, especially in the north because often it does vary between north and south and we always talk about what region or what area of Italy we're discussing but especially in the north, italians have this way of being where they're comfortable being with others, but in silence, and what I mean by that is, as an American, I noticed that often we talk over each other. Someone ends a sentence and someone immediately starts talking, like there's no silent gap in between talking. In Italian culture, from what this person was describing and also from what I've noticed, there is more silence and just being. That's an activity. That's an activity to just be with somebody in silence. It's hard to describe, but this is exactly why I'm not the one describing it.

Speaker 2:

You can listen to the episode and hear an Italian person describe it. But yeah, we talk about a variety of different things and it's a really, really we have a lot of fun. It's a mix of educational, because you're learning about another culture, and entertaining, and it kind of full circle back to the beginning of this conversation here on this podcast about opening your mind by learning about different cultures. And if you're unable to travel as much as you would like, because it's not always easy for everybody, now we have these other ways of learning about different cultures and different ways of living through podcasts or through social media or the internet, and so it could be a way also just to learn something that you didn't know before and have that fun party fact when you go to a party and you're the one that knows that cool thing about Italy.

Speaker 1:

And I would concur, ladies and gentlemen, if you have any fascination whatsoever with Italy, if you haven't been yet, listen to Italian.

Speaker 1:

For sure it does give you an incredible, insightful viewpoint into some of the ways to appreciate Italy and all its nuanced experiences, experiences.

Speaker 1:

I think what we get as travelers, especially if we're, you know, we're going to Italy, is we get the car ride conversation, we get the taxi viewpoint, you know, or the hospitality individual at the hotel who's sharing those things, but it's really not what I would call local and I feel like they give us what we want to hear, yes, and if you get outside of that, that pat response, if you will and you get to see the countryside and you get to experience the people, katrin's show actually shares with you some of those things you might not hear, most likely won't, if you're just visiting inside the city centers and you're in the most traveled, americanized, if you will, spaces in Italy, which they are for sure, in almost every part of Europe there are American centers, americanized experiences, and it's really, I think, valuable to get outside that.

Speaker 1:

So we're going to wrap this up a little bit the power of perspective which I feel like, this is paths and perspectives. You can see them both as the same right Lanes and paths and each one has a different perspective. So share with our audience the last viewpoint that you have with regards to identifying your path, the last sort of last like viewpoint that you have with regards to identifying your path, finding your lane and adopting new perspectives to help with fear and life.

Speaker 1:

Everything is made up. Yes, you talked about this before.

Speaker 2:

It's all a construct. It's all a construct of your experiences, of what you have been exposed to, of what you know, whether that now is, you know, internet based, or whether that's the real life experiences or in person I shouldn't say real life, but in person experiences. Everything is made up meaning, and what do I mean by that? It's something that really helped me go beyond what others thought was the right path for me Was that maybe for somebody, what they're wearing, the clothes on their back, having a great fashion sense, is really important to that person, but for you it doesn't feel important and so for you it's not.

Speaker 2:

It doesn't mean that it is and you don't care, or that it's not and that person cares too much. It means that it's made up. For that person it's important, and that's totally fine. For you it's less important, and that's totally fine. You have the ability to move to a different country and you want to try moving there and someone tells you well, how could you leave the country that you're from? Because you know it's better, or whatever they might say from that person. That might be fact. It is a better place to live for them, but it is not a better place to live for you.

Speaker 2:

And so it's trying to remove all of these opinions and judgments and trying to understand what you actually want, like almost instead of figuring out who you are thinking of, like peeling back the layers of an onion to find, like, who you've always been, but has the opinions from other people kind of blocked you from taking the path that you actually wanted to take. So my advice would be keep that in mind. Everything is made up. Continue to expose yourself to new experiences, new perspectives. Talk to people I would say to strangers, but in a safe way, just talk to people.

Speaker 1:

Learn new things.

Speaker 2:

Or listen to Dalyan, for sure you can hear strangers on her podcast all the time, exactly, in a safe way, from your living room, in a safe way exactly.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, learn about the authentic how to find an authentic restaurant in Italy and not be worried that someone's going to attack you. No, so it's really that, I think, would be. The best advice that I could give is just really keeping an open mind. But to form an open mind, I think the easiest way to do that is to just keep taking in other perspectives so that you can understand what resonates with you and try things. If you go down a path and you find out five years later that that working path, that language path, that relationship path, that whatever path, actually wasn't the right way to go, turn around, go a different way, um, you can adjust as you go down the fearless road Um you.

Speaker 2:

it's not fixed.

Speaker 1:

Well, and speaking of um, where can every if people want to find out more about you and what you're doing, the great Katrin Spakartis I have this dyslexic thing that's going on Share with us where we can find you, what are your handles? What are your at mentions?

Speaker 2:

Sure, so it's ItalianForSurecom, if you want to go to the website, and you can find all of the links to the different podcast platforms. So ItalianForSurecom on YouTube, italian for sure channel on Instagram and TikTok, italian for sure is the handle and yeah, and all the platforms. You can just look up and search Italian comma for sure and enjoy the podcast.

Speaker 1:

Well, Katrin, thank you so much for sharing your journey, your fearless road.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1:

You've enlightened a lot of us on some things.

Speaker 1:

I think that we can make some really great points, which is, ladies and gentlemen, if you are in a place where you're wondering you're thinking about getting started and fear or the idea of what other people's opinions about your actions might take.

Speaker 1:

Take some advice from Katrin today A get started, Just get started on a path, and that action alone will invite the universe to bring to you all kinds of new opportunities, even the ones you don't expect for you to grow into the next greatest version of yourself. While traveling your fearless road and enjoy the journey. Open yourself up to as many perspectives and as many opportunities for experience as you can, because one of the things you're going to learn as Katrin has helped us understand about ourselves and our journey is the power of perspective, and the power of experience can help shape the rest of our lives and actually help us find real happiness. So thank you again, Katrin, for being on the Fearless Road podcast. You've been a blessing, You've been a treat, and I'm a fan of Italy and I'm a big fan of yours now, so thank you very much. Do you have any last words for anybody?

Speaker 2:

No, I think that I've said all that I can say for now, but thank you so much for having me on, Michael. It was really a pleasure.

Speaker 1:

Of course, and as I say before we close out, everybody stay fearless, have a fearless mindset and travel the world, whether it's through your podcast, even on Catrins, which is Italian for sure, italian for sure. And this has been the Fearless Road, with Michael DeBoot and Catrin Capertus Enjoy Bye, bye, this has been a Fearless Road. Network Productions brought to you by DeVue Media Holdings LLC.